Bustout Hand in Double Shoot out for WSOP

[Prime Time]

Just got to vent a little.
Busted out 7th in the 2nd table of the 7:00 double shoot out w/ QQ.
Blinds 50-100, I pop it to 300 from co-1 w/ T1100 left behind.
CO raises to 700. (CO was capable of having any pair or any two high cards and was chip leader)

He ended up w/ AA and toasted me. What eats me up is how bad I played it. I tried stop and go w/ QQ when a K hit the board.

What a dumb ars.

I thought if I laid it down b4 flop, would be to weak.
If I call, also weak. So figured stop and go no matter what.
Definitely would feel better about myself if I pushed b4 flop even though I was doomed.


Well playing in supersat right now for Aruba WPT seat at UB.
Phil Hellmuth is in and Pete Giordano (The Beat is two to my right.)
3 packages going down tonight.

Later
PGA71

[slickpoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
Just got to vent a little.
Busted out 7th in the 2nd table of the 7:00 double shoot out w/ QQ.
Blinds 50-100, I pop it to 300 from co-1 w/ T1100 left behind.
CO raises to 700. (CO was capable of having any pair or any two high cards and was chip leader)

He ended up w/ AA and toasted me. What eats me up is how bad I played it. I tried stop and go w/ QQ when a K hit the board.

What a dumb ars.

I thought if I laid it down b4 flop, would be to weak.
If I call, also weak. So figured stop and go no matter what.
Definitely would feel better about myself if I pushed b4 flop even though I was doomed.


Well playing in supersat right now for Aruba WPT seat at UB.
Phil Hellmuth is in and Pete Giordano (The Beat is two to my right.)
3 packages going down tonight.

Later
PGA71

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you played it fine. After he reraised to 700, you definitely could not have folded QQ, and pushing all-in does not accomplish anything. By doing the stop and go you at least gave yourself a chance of making him lay down a better hand. For all you know he could fold KK on a flop with an A. Even the slightest probability of this happening makes it worthwhile. The whole point of the stop and go is that you push the flop no matter what because you are PCed anyway. There is no way you could lay down QQ on any board when you are left with 400 and getting 4.5:1 odds.

[MLG]

You can't stop n go on a K high flop. There is no hand you want to fold that doesnt have a K and any K is calling. You have to check call all-in now.

[slickpoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
You can't stop n go on a K high flop. There is no hand you want to fold that doesnt have a K and any K is calling. You have to check call all-in now.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only reason you would not push is if you are going to fold if he bets behind you. If you are behind, he is defintely going to put you all-in. If you are ahead, you don't want to give a free card to a hand like JJ or AQ that he would fold but might hit on the turn. Either way you are no worse off by pushing.

[MLG]

many many times he will bet with AQ and JJ. It is absolutely correct to risk 2-3 outs in order to try and get that bluff money.

[Che]

What's the plan if he checks behind?

[Prime Time]

Right.

By the way,
thanks for the sweat slick papa, woody, mikey worm, and one more guy I forgot who something FT that knew I was Prime Time, and was saying BT, which I did not know ment Brown trout till later.
PGA71

[slickpoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
many many times he will bet with AQ and JJ. It is absolutely correct to risk 2-3 outs in order to try and get that bluff money.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is a fair point, but there are some cases in which the opponent is behind, but he actaully has the odds to call. For example, if he has an AQs with a backdoor flush draw, he has the correct odds to call, so you would rather have him fold.

[Prime Time]

Funny as hell.
People keep stopping by my table complaining that they can't see Hellmuth because there is no more room for spectators.
lol
PGA71

[Chipr777]

Pathetic

[Prime Time]

thanks for the sweat chip and tiger.
Funny hugh?

[Potowame]

PT whats your UB name ?

[Prime Time]

PGA71,
same as every where.
Putting every one on tilt now.

[Chipr777]

They say every tourney win you have to have a huge suckout somewhere down the line. Good luck in Aruba! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif That hand can be classified as a tourney turning point!

[Prime Time]

Hand #4901239-119 Summary:

No rake is taken for this hand.
PGA71 wins 400.
----------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------
P0ker H0 is eliminated.

Hand #4901239-124 at Mon930pmAruba-002 (No Limit tournament Hold'em)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 14/Mar/05 23:36:11

PGA71 is at seat 1 with 8360.
thebeardog is at seat 2 with 6630.
KRISTEN is at seat 3 with 8400.
Bellyman is at seat 4 with 3855.
P0ker H0 is at seat 5 with 0 (sitting out).
EB25 is at seat 6 with 14085.
dblply is at seat 7 with 18920.
dean1278 is at seat 8 with 1840.
soccer mom 2 is at seat 9 with 6615.
The button is at seat 4.

EB25 posts the big blind of 200.

PGA71: Th Tc
thebeardog: -- --
KRISTEN: -- --
Bellyman: -- --
EB25: -- --
dblply: -- --
dean1278: -- --
soccer mom 2: -- --

Pre-flop:

dblply folds. dean1278 folds. soccer mom 2 folds.
PGA71 raises to 500. thebeardog folds. KRISTEN
calls. Bellyman folds. EB25 folds.

Flop (board: 8s 6c 8c):

PGA71 bets 600. KRISTEN raises to 1800. PGA71
calls.

Turn (board: 8s 6c 8c Ac):

PGA71 checks. KRISTEN bets 1400. PGA71 goes all-in
for 6060. KRISTEN calls.

Tournament all-in showdown -- players show:

PGA71 shows Th Tc.
KRISTEN shows Jc Kc.


River (board: 8s 6c 8c Ac 8h):

[Chipr777]

I've been on the other end of those for 6 months now. Last week I flopped top set 10's. A-K bet me all in. Turn and river were J-Q. Been happening to me for some time now.

[Prime Time]

just a coinflip sorry to say.
Happens all the time.

[Prime Time]

Just hanging on 11 left.
Need two double ups for the lead.
Need cards now.

[Prime Time]

9 left in 7th place now.
Card dead, but hanging in.
cards please

[Prime Time]

Just doubled up W/ KK.
Now in fourth.
I like this more cards please!

[Prime Time]

6 left and in the money.
Top 3 get seats.
Got over 1K locked up.
In Fourth.
More cards, now I've been stealing.

[MLG]

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO PETE. I'm watching.

[Prime Time]

raise on button w/ A9, get BB goes all in w/66
I call and hit ace.
Now in 3rd w/ 5 left.

3 get seats.

Cards please!

[Prime Time]

down to 4.
3 go.
Cards please!

[MLG]

Pete, Detroit is gonna put himself, as might dblply who has no idea how to tighten as the big stack. lay back a little.

[Prime Time]

ok thanks
Had AK when the 2 Queens were on board an blew thru 20K.

[Prime Time]

detroit is weak tight, and I can steal at will there.
Don't you agree?

[MLG]

not from what i saw (which admittedlty was brief). go on your read, im sure its better than mine.

[Prime Time]

Now he's calling and betting into me.
I need AA.

[ethan]

[ QUOTE ]
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO PETE. I'm watching.

[/ QUOTE ]

[MLG]

I predict dlbply will go from bigstack to bubble.

[MLG]

Sorry man, nothing you can do on that AA hand. That really sucked.

[Prime Time]

Nope its me.
Got crippled w/ KQ vs AA when I hit Q top pair. Doubled up the short stack while I was trying to take him out.
The 2700 I won, feels like Shhht.
You know.
How bad was I really.
Critiques please.

[Prime Time]

It helped knowing you guys were there.
And for all the PM's.

[tiger7210]

I totally agree with ur read on DrDetroit. He was weak tight and you always knew when he had a hand. I'm a bit surprised u called with the KQ PF when he miniraised you back. As the short stack it looked like he was looking for the double up. As much as you were stealing from him, I think I let KQ go there.

Just as a note, I thought u played the best of the 4 short handed but I thought Fatcats was very smart in laying back and not getting overly involved when his stack was healthy. I thought it was pretty obvious either you were going to take down the last guy or you were going down 4th since you were by far the most aggressive of the final 4.

In a normall MTT i know this is generally the best method o attack, but in a Sat. I would love to know opinions on aggression with 4 even stacks and 3 qualifiers.

[Prime Time]

Thanks man.
Bunch of PM's saying the same, from MLG, Potawame, ect.

usually shorthanded KQ, w/ Q high flop is a monster.
Tried to take the tourny down right there.

Later
PGA71

[Bernas]

But you are only going to be called by hands that beat you. I think a check call is a better play here.

[Potowame]

Hey PT, As you know I think you by far where out playing any other player in the final 4. Its not even close, hehe.

I think this SAT was like sitting a BJ table with a bad player to your left, no matter how good you play he keeps screwing it up for you. The guy to your left was bleeding chips at a stupid rate to the SS, this kept them both alive way longer than they should have been.

When Dr. was nearly out , he double him back up with some worthless cheese hand that he shouldn't have even been in with. but for some reason he felt his mini raise UTG was a good move to do every round.

What can ya say the AA vs. KQ was a mistake, but I belive you should have been posting about how you where on your way to Aruba by then. But the big stack was doing all he could do to keep those two chiped up. I was not a very happy camper with his play, as you can tell. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[RavenJackson]

Prime Time.

Tough loss. I watched last night until you were down to 6; however, I had to pack it in. I enjoyed watching your aggressive play, I definitely plan on using some of your techniques. The $2,700.00 probably seems like poor consolation in the circumstances.

P.S. I thought you were gone when you pushed your 2 pair against a made flush and hit that 8 on the river for the boat. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Prime Time]

Funny you should throw in the BJ analogy.
For a brief time I played professional BJ until becoming persona non-gratis due to the wins I was accumulating at various casinos. Was actually banned from Foxwoods my home casino due to withdrawing too much from them. Got a little greedy but trust me when I tell you that I did not hurt their bottom line at all. I could not play a poker tournament there till last year when I begged and pleaded senior management for my wampum card reinstatement.

I have now given up BJ to focus my spare time on poker.

Any ways the point I wanted to address is that the players at the BJ table cannot disrupt the flow of the cards by “playing wrong”. Each card coming out of the shoe or the top of the deck is a semi random occurrence. For example a bad BJ player in last position may deviate from basic strategy and hit a 17. That card may have hurt the dealer, and the next card makes the dealer a pat hand. It could also work visa versa; so don’t believe that bad players can have an effect on your win/loss rate. The only thing that can be certain is that the bad BJ player described above will lose his money faster than the –EV .5% that a perfect basic strategy player would have.

Later and thanks again

[Prime Time]

Thanks man,
it was fun having you guys around.
Was probably to agro in the end for my own good.
MLG tried to slow me down, but my head is a little hard some times.

But thanks.

PGA71

[Prime Time]

Funny you should throw in the BJ analogy.
For a brief time I played professional BJ until becoming persona non-gratis due to the wins I was accumulating at various casinos. Was actually banned from Foxwoods my home casino due to withdrawing too much from them. Got a little greedy but trust me when I tell you that I did not hurt their bottom line at all. I could not play a poker tournament there till last year when I begged and pleaded senior management for my wampum card reinstatement.

I have now given up BJ to focus my spare time on poker.

Any ways the point I wanted to address is that the players at the BJ table cannot disrupt the flow of the cards by "playing wrong". Each card coming out of the shoe or the top of the deck is a semi random occurrence. For example a bad BJ player in last position may deviate from basic strategy and hit a 17. That card may have hurt the dealer, and the next card makes the dealer a pat hand. It could also work visa versa; so don't believe that bad players can have an effect on your win/loss rate. The only thing that can be certain is that the bad BJ player described above will lose his money faster than the negative EV (-.5%) that a perfect basic strategy player would have.

Later and thanks again
pga71

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
Any ways the point I wanted to address is that the players at the BJ table cannot disrupt the flow of the cards by “playing wrong”. Each card coming out of the shoe or the top of the deck is a semi random occurrence. For example a bad BJ player in last position may deviate from basic strategy and hit a 17. That card may have hurt the dealer, and the next card makes the dealer a pat hand. It could also work visa versa; so don’t believe that bad players can have an effect on your win/loss rate. The only thing that can be certain is that the bad BJ player described above will lose his money faster than the –EV .5% that a perfect basic strategy player would have.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know very little about blackjack, just the basics. My boss, however, it's his game. Whenever he bitches about the bad players taking a card away, I tell him this very thing but he says I'm nuts. To me this is just commonsense. He's so paranoid about this that he leaves the table when there is a bad player.

P.S. On the QQ hand, I wouldn't beat myself up too much. You're read was that the guy could have any pair or any 2 high cards, so how could you fold. This is just one of those hands when i get it i say "It sucks being me right now", not much you can do unless you want to make a habit of folding queens preflop.

[Prime Time]

Your a wise man Mike.
Your boss should be working for you.
But he is smart enough to know that you will make him look good.
Later