Who thinks they can beat this table?

[boogerboy]

NL $100 buy in. Mostly young players (around college age, a few older, like me). Pretty loose raising and calling standards, moderate to high raising bet ($5-$15) very aggressive after the flop. If you play a hand it is likely to be very expensive to see very many cards. Most are very knowlegable of their outs and the pot/implied odds of the bets they make. A couple will routinely straddle which makes for a game that anybody could have almost anything at anytime.

Who can make money at this table? What style of play would you bring?

I have been playing a very tight then aggressive strategy. Everyone has become aware of how tight I am, but will get a surprising amount of action pre flop. Post flop I will either bet a sizable amount and win a small to medium pot, or I will get cold called or reraised getting beat by junk (wierd 2 pairs like K7, or a straight to the 9, or low flush). Obviously the hands I win are smaller than the hands I loose. Overall I am even with this group, but I struggle to make a killing like I would expect (and do everywhere else).

Looking for suggestions on how to change up my play in this game.

[KaneKungFu123]

NL $100 buy in.


I stopped here. Yes.

[boogerboy]

gee thanks!

[BaronVonCP]

Don't be so quick to judge. I play with my friends in a .05/.10 NL game, and it is probably the toughest game I play in.

[SpeakEasy]

[ QUOTE ]
Who can make money at this table? What style of play would you bring?

Looking for suggestions on how to change up my play in this game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Beating this game is not so much a function of how you play (assuming you are, in fact, playing tight aggressive as you describe), as it is being prepared to fully commit to every hand, and frequently reload. The goal should be playing your early hands for your entire stack, to build up a decent sized stack to hang with the high cost of playing any hand (in relation to your buy-in stack size).

Bring lots of money and be prepared to keep re-loading and play this like a $500 max buy-in table. Once you build up a stack, then you are not completely committed every time you play any hand.

PF raises of 15% of the initial buy-in stack require you to commit your entire initial stack to the hands that that you play. Under normal conditions, you don't see PF raises that routinely represent 15% of your initial buy-in. At $500 max buy-in, for example, you're going to raise to, or call a raise of, $75 with only premium hands. Even in this type of game, the players that open raise for 15% of their stack are typically scared players (fear that leads to the philosophy "I'd rather kill the action with a $75 raise, than have 98o crack my pocket kings"). Otherwise, the typical raise will be to something like $35 or $40, which is in the range of 5-10% of your initial buy-in.

[boogerboy]

Nice reply. I was considering this strategy with lots of all in's early. I agree that a bigger stack helps combat the large bets. I have also been thinking of moving in with all or most coin flip situations like AK, and any pocket pair. The idea being to build a stack sizable enough to go back to playing tight aggressive.

[banditbdl]

If you do in fact build a large stack you have to remember that you won't always be playing an effectively bigger stack, many of your opponents will presumably still be stuck around the 100-200 level and you'll have to adjust to your hands with those players accordingly.

[boogerboy]

Not sure I follow what you mean? Do you mean I will have say a $400 stack up against players with only $100 and won't be able to win a proportionate amount of money as compared to a table full of $400 stacks?

In what way would you adjust? Looser/more aggressive?

[Lawrence Ng]

You have to loosen up pre-flop. What goes around comes around in a game like this. So if you loosen up and smack the board, you can also clean some stacks up provided they aren't going to put you on junk and can't fold their premium hands.

You have to challenge those raises with a lot of smaller marginal holdings.

Lawrence

[KaneKungFu123]

[ QUOTE ]
NL $100 buy in. Mostly young players (around college age, a few older, like me). Pretty loose raising and calling standards, moderate to high raising bet ($5-$15) very aggressive after the flop. If you play a hand it is likely to be very expensive to see very many cards. Most are very knowlegable of their outs and the pot/implied odds of the bets they make. A couple will routinely straddle which makes for a game that anybody could have almost anything at anytime.

Who can make money at this table? What style of play would you bring?

I have been playing a very tight then aggressive strategy. Everyone has become aware of how tight I am, but will get a surprising amount of action pre flop. Post flop I will either bet a sizable amount and win a small to medium pot, or I will get cold called or reraised getting beat by junk (wierd 2 pairs like K7, or a straight to the 9, or low flush). Obviously the hands I win are smaller than the hands I loose. Overall I am even with this group, but I struggle to make a killing like I would expect (and do everywhere else).

Looking for suggestions on how to change up my play in this game.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry man, but if these guys are in college they're probally some of the best players alive. All hail college poker players.

[boogerboy]

LOL, I do feel like these kids are playing with all the money they have in the world. Thats another reason I am so surprised at their syle of play. When I was in college I'm not sure I ever had $100. Must have been because I spent all my money on beer.

[nate1729]

Sounds like the Foxwoods baby NL to me. Or, hell, just about any baby NL.

You might get better results postflop by making continuation bets (see HoH) with a wider variety of hands, even ones you don't hit. You didn't say much substantial about how you play, so I don't know if you do this or not. Also, don't fall into the trap of "ahhh, they could have anything, so I'll miss this river value bet." It was one of my biggest weaknesses when I was playing $100 NL regularly. Of course, you have to be willing to revise a read, but be sure you make the read in the first place. It seems fishy to a 2+2 sophisticate, but closing your eyes and pushing with TPTK against a random fancypants clown can make you plenty of money. Good luck.

--Nate

[mgsimpleton]

how to take money from the fish at foxwoods:

1) river value bets are key. players are not tricky, they will bet top pair at you, if you hold top pair better kicker you HAVE to get 1/2 the pot out of them when they check the river to you. i RARELY have been check raised on the river with a two pair type hand. (it's only happened when someone's draw got there.)

2) as a corollary, if a draw gets there, don't think "he would never check that draw to me if he got there, i'll value bet." i think maybe half of the flush draws or straight draws that get there are checked to me on the river in the hopes for a check raise. i check behind, nod, they get very disappointed, and go for the check raise again next time.

3)do NOT change your preflop requirements. i mean, stop folding KQ and AJ to preflop raises as long as you can recognize when AQ or AK is out there and get away... but otherwise, do not play hands where you will not be in love with your kicker.

i play that game all the time and i still limp with AQ... i have made hundreds of dollars value betting AQ against a Q 10 that limped in and then hit a Q high flop. i personally think that's where the most money is to be made.

4)do NOT slow play sets. or really, anything. this depends on the opponent, of course, but most will pay you with pretty much anything on the turn or the river. the flop, if it's complete rags, there might be an argument there, but otherwise, seriously you should constantly be thinking "how can i get ALL of his stack in here"

i'm sure there are tons more, if anyone has more to add, please let me know. this is what i have picked up in a very short time.

[SpeakEasy]

[ QUOTE ]
4)do NOT slow play sets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good advice. I've found in nearly all levels of play that checking a set regularly leads to trouble. In addition, opponents generally assume that the average player will not bet a set, which disguises the strength. Especially true against these crazy kids.

[RainFall]

great post duck