Crushing the party $.5/$1 game

[Gambler]

What is the general consensus on what constitutes "crushing" the .5/1 game on Party? I'm winning about 4.25 BB/100 after 7200 hands on my way to 10000. At 10000 I'm moving up to 1/2. Wondered what I could expect for a win rate at 10000 hands. I know its still a fairly small sample size so please don't flame me. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Rockfish]

I'll be interested in what the concensus is on this. I have been having an incredible run at 0.5/1. I'm clobbering 0.5/1 and yet every time I take a shot at 1/2 it feels like work. Tables are significantly tighter and more aggressive. The level of play is not exactly excellent but opponents mistakes are not nearly as apparent to me as they are at 0.5/1. Probably because they are not quite as egregious comparatively.

[solucky]

u should expect nothing. I have this month 5,2BB over 7000 hands. But over 35000 hands only 1,xx BB, and i had last year a 3 month streak around 40 000 hands that i was down 10$. Try it and look, but in my opinion only the 2/4 seems easier than the 1/2

Wolfgang

[spentrent]

Are you four-tabling? If so, nice job!

It's really not important to look for a "consensus" on "crushing." Think about it this way: if you are half as successul at 1/2, you're making the same amount of money.

Move up NOW if you're bankrolled.

[Victor]

you clearly have innate poker ability in the abstract.

you should quit any job you have and 16 table .5/1. refer to the article in this monthes magazine.

[Gambler]

I'm usually 4 tabling. When I move up I'm only going to play one table at a time at first.

[kenberman]

[ QUOTE ]
What is the general consensus on what constitutes "crushing" the .5/1 game on Party? I'm winning about 4.25 BB/100 after 7200 hands on my way to 10000. At 10000 I'm moving up to 1/2. Wondered what I could expect for a win rate at 10000 hands. I know its still a fairly small sample size so please don't flame me. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

read the FAQ in the Micro forum.

I would say "crushing" .50/1 Party is 4BB/100+ over 20K hands.

[ScottTheFish]

I doubt anyone who is a winning player plays at .5/1 long enough to determine what a reasonable expectation for win rate is over the long term. If you're comfortable at the next level and you have the bankroll for it, move up. There is no magic formula that will tell you if you are ready.

[Gambler]

Good point. I was only asking what was considered crushing .5/1 not what I could expect to make at 1/2.

[1C5]

I am at just under 3bb/100 after 17K hands of .5/1. Not exactly crushing it.

[Vern]

Not a flame, but just an explination that might help you understand why 10K hands is an acceptable, yet very small sample size.

Assuming you have a typical SD of ~15BB/100 hands and an apparent win rate of 4.25BB/100, for 3 standard deviations, (mathmatically 99% certianty)

Confidence range = SD*3/SQRT(Hands/100)

To insure you are a winning player, we set confidence range to you apparent win rate, SD to a typical 15BB/100 and solve for Hands

Hands = [(SD * 3)/(Confidence Range)]^2 * 100
Hands = [(15*3)/4.25]^2*100
Hands = [45/4.25]^2*100
Hands = [10.59]^2*100
Hands = 112*100=11,200 hands

That is the number of hands you need to be 99% confident that you are a winning player with that apparent win rate. You can get your SD from PT's Session Tab, More Details button. If you only care about 95% confidence, use 2*SD and if you only care about 68%, use 1*SD.

To answer the question, after 10K hands you will a fairly good idea whether you are a winning player or not. If you have the confidence and the bankroll, moving up to 1/2 is fine. I would recommend you read the micro forums on others who have made the change. It can be enlightening and frustrating. Good Luck.

Vern

Standard Disclaimer

[jzpiano14]

When I played .5/1 I was beating the game for 4.8 BB/100, and when moved up to 1/2 my winrate was cut in half to 2.4 BB/100 both were 15k hands. Just to give you an idea of what to expect. GL

[TobDog]

If the 1/2 seems hard, you may want to jump into playing 1 2-4 game instead, or 1 2-4 game with your other .50-1 games. The 1-2, 5-10, and 10-20 full games are/have been noted here to be fairly tight making it harder to achieve the success of the level just below them.

Just make sure you are bankrolled(you appear to be) and a swing in that game is going to be 4x the amount of money as the same swing in the 50-1.

[adamstewart]

"What is the general consensus on what constitutes a "big member"? I'm currently sleeping with about 4.25 girls/week after 7200 dates, on my way to 10000. At 10000 dates I'm moving up 1/2 an inch in length (surgery). Wondered what I could expect with that type of size. I know its still a fairly small in size so please don't flame me." /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Gambler]

lol

[Vern]

I hear this all the time, "Skip 1/2 because it is so tight" I think this is hogwash. If he cannot learn to adapt to 1/2 he is unlikely able to adapt to 2/4, even if he has the bankroll theoretically.

Play 1/2 until you are confident you understand the changes. Less multiway pots, a couple more blind attacks/defenses. Get into some short handed play at the 1/2 6Max so you can take advantage of weaker player as a table breaks up. You may find the fast aggressive pace of 1/2 6Max suits your style, but it is a great place to learn SH play. 1/2 6Max has as many or more weak players than .5/1 at Party. They just come in a lot more aggressive and different flavors and you have to take advantage of their mistakes differently. 1/2 6max also teaches you about variance like nothing else.

When you are ready to move up, make sure you have the bankroll, reduce the number of tables you play or take one table down at a time and replace it with the next higher level (for the risk adverse). Stick to the move no matter your initial result. What I mean is (example), if you have a 500BB bank roll for 1/2, decide that if it were to get down to 250BB, you drop back to .5/1 (500BB for that level) but don't jump back and forth just because your first couple of attempts at 1/2 see a 30-50BB loss. Those are always possible at any level and short term results should not impact the level you decide to play.

Vern

Standard Disclaimer, I am by no means an expert at any of this.

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
What is the general consensus on what constitutes "crushing" the .5/1 game on Party? I'm winning about 4.25 BB/100 after 7200 hands on my way to 10000. At 10000 I'm moving up to 1/2. Wondered what I could expect for a win rate at 10000 hands. I know its still a fairly small sample size so please don't flame me. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

That's pretty good, but a real short term crushing would be like 9 BB/100.

Just don't expect the same at 1/2. It's significantly harder, although still completely beatable.

In fact, don't expect the same anywhere else. Party .5/1 is the promised land.

Also.... it will take a while for this to sink in, but 10,000 hands is like ... 1 hand in the grand scheme of things.

[Tann]

I am in a similar situation. After 18 000 hands my winning rate is 5.27 BB/100 on 0.5/1 on Party.

I just moved up to 1/2 and my WR dropped down to 1.7 BB/100 (5 400 hands) /images/graemlins/frown.gif In my opinion the 1/2 games are more aggressive than the 0.5/1 and need a different playing style. The style which was successful on 0.5/1 does not work well on 1/2. I believe if I can adjust to the new environment, the WR will increase, but I do not expect it to be so high as it is in the lowest Party stakes.

[buffett]

Just a drop of data in an endless sea.....

I had a statistically significant 4.0bb/100h at 2- or 3-tabled Party 1/2 full ring limit, so I recently moved to 2-tabled Party 2/4 full ring limit. I've played about 10k hands so far, and my win rate is 4.0bb/100h.

(Btw, I started playing at 2-tabled Party 0.5/1 full ring limit in October and moved to 1/2 in Nov/Dec.)
-web

[meep_42]

[ QUOTE ]
When I played .5/1 I was beating the game for 4.8 BB/100, and when moved up to 1/2 my winrate was cut in half to 2.4 BB/100 both were 15k hands. Just to give you an idea of what to expect. GL

[/ QUOTE ]

This is about the same as I experienced. (%age wise)

-d

[Guthrie]

Sounds like good advice. I'm just about to start playing online, and although I've played in b&m clubs, 2/4, 3/6, 4/8, 10/20 and 15/30, I plan to start at .5/1 and take all the steps on the way up, accumulating enough hands at each step to see the difference.

[TobDog]

[ QUOTE ]
I hear this all the time, "Skip 1/2 because it is so tight" I think this is hogwash. If he cannot learn to adapt to 1/2 he is unlikely able to adapt to 2/4, even if he has the bankroll theoretically.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could be very true, when I was moving up thru 1-2 I wasnt good enough to notice a good game from a bad one, all I know is I wasnt there long before I started to play 2-4(I ran well during that time), I will play 50-1 when whoring a lot of stacked bonii so I can 8-10 table with the RB and bonus and pretty much auto-fold, so much for strategy. This has been mentioned before, but the limits that are said to be "bad" 1-2, 5-10 and 10-20, all offer 6 max games, the 15-30 has fewer 6 max games, the 50-1, 2-4 and 3-6 dont have 6 max games offered, which means that everyone at that limit will be playing full ring, the better players here (I not being one of them) are mostly better short hand players, prefer the 6 max over the full ring.

[Rockfish]

You win the thread.

[Requested Bump]

You-know-who, thanks for the business. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

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[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
Just a drop of data in an endless sea.....

I had a statistically significant 4.0bb/100h at 2- or 3-tabled Party 1/2 full ring limit, so I recently moved to 2-tabled Party 2/4 full ring limit. I've played about 10k hands so far, and my win rate is 4.0bb/100h.

(Btw, I started playing at 2-tabled Party 0.5/1 full ring limit in October and moved to 1/2 in Nov/Dec.)
-web

[/ QUOTE ]

2 tabling?

That is like cheating.