Standard?

[citanul]

Following hand was not played by me.

PP 200, lvl 1, nothing unusual so far, all stacks ~1000.

utg calls, utg+1 calls, mp1 calls, mp2 raises to 60. one fold.
HERO has As Kc in MP3

Hero elects to call

all lp players, blinds fold. limper 1 folds. other limpers call.

4 to the flop, HERO to act last on the flop, pot ~280 i think.

FLOP: Kd 9d 2d

check, check, Preflop raiser bets 150.

HERO?

comments on the preflop action are of course welcome.

citanul

[johnnybeef]

raise...position is a beautiful thing.

[Apathy]

I think this should be re-raised PF to 180, if there was only one limper and a raise, different story but Hero got pretty lucky to only be up against 4 opponents here, it couldve easily been many more (note: my answer changes to call if the original raiser makes it much more then 60).

As the hand player out you need to raise the flop to find out where you at. You probably have the best hand. I like raising to 350.

[TylerD]

I'd make it about 375, but I'd hate to be re-raised so I'm not sure there's a "standard" move.

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this should be re-raised PF to 180, if there was only one limper and a raise, different story but Hero got pretty lucky to only be up against 4 opponents here, it couldve easily been many more (note: my answer changes to call if the original raiser makes it much more then 60).

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

[ QUOTE ]
As the hand player out you need to raise the flop to find out where you at.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yuck, gag, vomit.

[ QUOTE ]
You probably have the best hand. I like raising to 350.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you fold if you were re-raised all-in? That would not be a very good line. I agree that you are probably well ahead here. Let your opponent make a really bad mistake and go broke.

Irieguy

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
comments on the preflop action are of course welcome.


[/ QUOTE ]

I tend to follow the rule not to reraise a pot that you wouldn't want reraised again. I'd like to see this flop against all hands except AA. I think your call is fine.

Post flop. I think your edge has diminished significantly. (And you don't have a diamond). Lose a bet, no big deal, lose a pot - disasterous.

Villain's bet represents either weakness or building a pot (seems a little strong for pot building). What kind of hands do you put villain on? I would think either AK, AQs, AJs, KQ or a pocket pair (unless you know something to lead me to otherwise.) Perhaps outside chance of suited connectors. But my guess is a hand like JJ or TT.

If you are going to play this hand, I think a reraise here is the incorrect play. The fear of a flush is more represented by a call than a reraise.

[raptor517]

preflop the call of 60 is fine. on the flop, i cant see you putting your whole stack in with tptk with a 3 flush out there. you can get yourself a MUCH better spot later. save your chips, you will still have 940, which is plenty. fold the flop. holla

[Apathy]

The monotone board makes people do crazy things sometimes. I'm just worried about other people (not just the PFR) coming in with the great pot odds we have given to see the turn.

To Answer your question I would call a push from the PFR after I raised his flop bet but not from a check raiser.

[Benholio]

Sometimes in situations like this, I like to just call and push a non-scary turn. I'm not really sure if someone hits trips/2pair or some other hidden hand enough on the turn to make this a bad play, though.

[Unarmed]

Raising doesn't get you any information because the naked Ad can then shove all-in and get correct pot odds over two streets to hit the flush.

Flat call the flop and push any non-diamond turn.
I think /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[citanul]

Definitely I like the pattern I'm seeing of people having a plan for the turn.

I don't know if I've seen pushing the flop mentioned. Thoughts?

So far I think I saw:

a few "we like the call preflop"
a few "raise preflop"
no fold preflops, no push preflops

we've had at least one fold the flop
a couple raise the flops
and a couple call the flop with a plan for later.

i like it.

citanul

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]

To Answer your question I would call a push from the PFR after I raised his flop bet but not from a check raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

great line here! I like this, this is also why raising here is probably wrong...the question u have to ask is what are the odds that a flat call on the flop will also be accompanied by the other two yet to act folding? I think we want to be HU with PF raiser here but how can we assure that...so this is either a flat call or a fold...and dont get me wrong, the fold is not for fear of the PF raiser, but for that limper who is salivating his 95d...what level was this at again? 11? ....his 94d

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]

I don't know if I've seen pushing the flop mentioned. Thoughts?

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

That was my suggestion. You can't let fear about what will happen 2% of the time cloud your judgement the other 98% of the time.

Irieguy

[citanul]

this hand was played at the 200s.

citanul

[Scuba Chuck]

I've only done this once, and recently. It got my heart racing ...and some free chips.

[citanul]

sorry about that irie, didn't mean to gloss over your post. preflop raiser could of course have other hands that beat you that aren't a flush, and a naked Ad starts looking ok to one of those limpers at some point when the pot gets big... not saying i disagree. in fact, pushing the flop *may* be what i personally like the most.

i like this hand, since it's a common situation, and i'd like to hear the debate continue about the preflop play, and the flop options with plans for the turn. man i'm repetitive. i hope it isn't the paint fumes.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
like this hand, since it's a common situation

[/ QUOTE ]

Which part of this hand is common? I find the texture of the board here very uncommon.

[citanul]

i'm not worried about the straight draw at all.

it's very common to have the flop come monotone. a chunk of that time, you're in the pot. and another chunk of that time, you hit the flop. so very x chunk x chunk => common.

personally i find it a couple times a day that i have a "good" hand like top pair top kicker and the board is in some way decently scary, and there's several players in the pot, with players to act behind me facing a bet.

citanul