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View Full Version : Finishing 2nd place in a DS is worse than being kicked in the nuts

slickpoppa
03-14-2005, 04:26 AM
I played some of the best poker of my career until this. We were dead even, winner goes to Vegas (loser gets $160):

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (2 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t6800)
Button (t6700)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t400</font>, Hero calls t200.

Flop: (t850) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: (t850) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t500</font>, Button calls t500.

River: (t1850) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t5875 (All-In)</font>, Button calls t5775 (All-In).

Final Pot: t13275

Results in white:
<font color="white">
Me: T8
Villain: 33 </font>

I checked the flop because it was not out of the ordinary for how I had been playing. I had been completely missing a lot of flops and had checked a lot as first to act. So I was hoping for him to take the intiative.

My push on the river was obviously questionable, but I'm not sure that it was terrible. His preflop min-raise, flop check, and smoothcall on the turn suggested to me that he might have been slowplaying a big pocket pair. There were no flush possibilities and a straight was very remote. So basically my push was hoping for a call from a big overpair. All I lose to is a set. I should also note that the Villain called a big preflop reraise all-in early on with ATs, so I though he was capable of making a questionable call. I don't know, I can't really think straight right now. I was probably fvcked no matter what I bet on the river because he would have probably reraised me all-in and I would probably have had to call. Someone talk some sense into me.
ClaytonN
03-14-2005, 04:27 AM
River = ack
dankhank
03-14-2005, 01:45 PM
if the hand were bet the whole way with him just calling you then i like this play a lot. it makes an overpair more likely by him, and a call more likely. if he had an overpair and raised you on the turn, you could go all-in there. or call and stop-n-go the river. or check-raise. something more would've happened on the turn if he had an overpair.

the only reason this play is bad is because i don't think he's going to call you very often if he's losing.

if you'd bet 1000 on the river i don't think all the chips go in. you'd call a re-raise and be down to like 2k left.
Rick Diesel
03-14-2005, 02:05 PM
After calling his raise preflop, I would bet about half the pot on the flop, hoping for him to come back over the top. Many times you will win the pot right then, but if he does raise you, you'll have the opportunity to get all of your chips in right there.

Also, I thought that it was fairly customary for a $1,000 save when the DS were down to 2 players, particularly if they were pretty even in chips. I guess this didn't happen?

Rick Diesel
slickpoppa
03-14-2005, 02:27 PM
[ QUOTE ]
After calling his raise preflop, I would bet about half the pot on the flop, hoping for him to come back over the top. Many times you will win the pot right then, but if he does raise you, you'll have the opportunity to get all of your chips in right there.

Also, I thought that it was fairly customary for a $1,000 save when the DS were down to 2 players, particularly if they were pretty even in chips. I guess this didn't happen?

Rick Diesel

[/ QUOTE ]

There is definetely merit to betting the flop, and against some opponents that is probably what I would have done. But he had been taking the initiative on most of the flops, especially when he raised preflop, so I thought there was a very good chance he would bet the flop and turn, at which point I would have check-raised. I'm still kind of undecided whether or not betting the flop would hae been good. In this situtation it burned me, but if he had been holding two high cards, it could have given him a chance to catch top pair. Perhaps leading with a small 1/4 pot bet would have been best. This is the kind of thing that I hope Harrington on Holdem Vol. II will discuss.

Ironically, I had been just about to suggest making a deal to give a consolation to second place, but I got distracted when I flopped top two pair.
sam h
03-14-2005, 02:50 PM
His line does not look like a big pocket pair to me at all. That is a draw-filled flop and the turn puts out all sorts of gut shots. Playing a big pair like that heads up on this board would be terrible.

Which is why I think your push was really bad. Hate to say it because I know you are reeling, but you need to get paid off by A6 here. Plus, if you bet 1000 a lot of opponents are going to value raise small and I'm not sure you get stacked.