35s--played ok? odds right?

[matix]

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB folds, MP2 folds, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, Button folds.

River: (6 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls.

Final Pot: 10 BB

I usually don't even feel comfortable playing this hand, but i dropped down from playing 1/2 to this .25/.50 table, and when I do that I tend to play a wider range of hands and become more of a LAG (which is bad I assume?) Do you guys normally play this hand? I don't remember any reads I had at the table but I'm guessing he's got T+OK? or just two UI OK's? Anyways, overall how does this one look? When I went through it my outs seemed to tell me to keep going, but I'm not 100% on that /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Would this hand be better if it were 10 handed with a lot of limpers ahead of me? To me with a hand that's usually not on my list and with only 5 in the hand it seems a bit risky?

thanks for your help /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[AlmightyJay]

Fold preflop.

Fold the flop.

Fold the turn.

River looks good.

[Shillx]

You play in this hand would be fine if the pot were like 3 times bigger.

53s is just too weak to be limping in with preflop after only one limper. On the flop you flopped a gutshot that needs roughly 11:1 to continue with. Other things to factor in include a) the 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif is a dirty card, b) there is someone to act behind you who could raise and c) you aren't even drawing to the nuts should the 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif (for example) slide off. You have a very weak draw on the flop, and getting 6:1 not closing the action isn't enough.

Brad

[thesharpie]

[ QUOTE ]
Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)


Would this hand be better if it were 10 handed with a lot of limpers ahead of me? To me with a hand that's usually not on my list and with only 5 in the hand it seems a bit risky?

thanks for your help /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

When the action is to you preflop it could possibly be just 3 handed. I wouldn't play this even if I knew everyone yet to act would call preflop, which they did luckily.

You don't want to be playing junk like this with 1 limper.

[matix]

wow, thanks for the smack on the wrist /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

i guess im not getting the odds part as well as i thought /images/graemlins/frown.gif
so now that I KNOW this hand is a HORSE**** one, lets do a little pretending just so I can understand this correctly...

Here is my path of thinking for this hand
*I have 6:1 odds with the flop and according to this chart ( http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/c/jccuneo/preflop.pdf ) i only need 5:1 to call for the turn with 4 outs (pretend he has no flushdraw, just do it, so the 4c doesnt matter for him)
*so i call and get the 3 ( if im assuming all he has is a pair of tens, another 3, 4, or 5 will help me so thats a total of 9 outs so i need 4.1:1 to call which i have.
*i call and make my straight...at least i did one thing right and raised it

so if someone could analyze my thinking and tell me where i went wrong (besides preflop, flop, and turn) and beat it into my head for some positive reinforcement, that would be great

gracias!

[caggin]

On the flop you have 4 outs to the straight, which has odds of 1:10.75 to make it on the turn. I dunno where you're getting 1:6 from? You're 1:5.07 to make it BY THE RIVER, but you can't use those odds because it doesn't take into account any bets you're going to have to call on the turn. To do it correctly, you should also discount for the possibility that the 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif will complete a flush for someone. So you need odds of about 1:12 to call on the flop.

On the turn, if all your outs were clean, then yes, you would have 9 outs which is 1:4.1. But you don't really have 9 outs: you need to discount your outs because any /images/graemlins/club.gif will complete a flush, any /images/graemlins/spade.gif completes a (less likely) flush, a 5 gives anyone with a 4 a straight. I'd estimate you have closer to 5 or 6 outs, so you don't have the pot odds on the turn to continue.

[djhoneybear]

If you own a copy of SSH you should re-read the section on counting outs and redraws. Counting outs is more difficult than most new players realize and requires quickly seeing a flop and considering not only where your hand is currently but also where it is likely to be by the river. There are instances where you will likely have the best hand after the flop but almost certainly be beat by the river. New players go too far with these kind of hands because they get tunnel vision and forget to think about redraws.

When I first started playing I tried to memorize how many outs I would have with various hands but the game is more dynamic than this. Make sure you understand the underlying concepts at a deep level and question recommendations you don't understand fully.

[matix]

i got the 1:6 because those were the pot odds when i was in turn on the flop.

so when i look at my chart, when should i look at the turn odds and when should i look to the river odds?

thanks

[caggin]

The numbers listed under "turn" seem to be the odds of hitting your outs by the river, with two cards to come. Use these numbers when deciding whether or not it's correct to bet/raise for value with a draw on the flop. Do not use them to decide whether or not you have the odds to call a bet on the flop. Use a chart that has the odds for the turn card only (essentially the same as the numbers under the river column).

[Absolute]

fold preflop, ok so dont
fold the flop, or dont

sigh