Loose game problem - Lee Jones and Fans please HELP!!

I recently started playing Hold'em at a private club in Manhattan. The 10-20 hold'em game(s) can get very loose and wild in late night / early morning. 10 or 11 handed game where 6 to 8 (some times even 10) players will see flop for 1 to 4 bets regularly. I had some huge swings in the 5 sessions I played there though I pretty much broken even.

My question is that What hands should I play in each position? example would be play more suited connectors than big cards. How should I play from flop and beyond? ie. raise on flop to limit the field (failed frequently) or wait till turn to do anything.

Well any advise would be greatly appretiated.

Thanks,

nykenny

[J.A.Sucker]

Suited connectors loose a lot of value here, because the implied odds are poor, especially from EP. It's probably gonna cost you multiple bets on all streets - sounds like you don't want huge swings, so stay away. Smaller pairs aren't a bad hand because they are simple to play, and you'll get your odds on the set, so they become playable.

Really, though, in games like this, you're gonna have huge swings and bad beats galore. The 2+2 gurus say to only play AA, KK, QQ, AKs, AQs in games like this, and that doesn't sound like bad advice to me. Sounds boring as hell, is boring as hell, and it nothing outside of beeing poked in the eye feels better than waiting 6 hours for rockets only to see them snapped off in a 1000 pot by 6-3o. That said, it shouldn't be hard to beat this game, provided you have a big bankroll and a large store of patience. Good luck. /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

Thank, J.A.S.!

How about JTs in late pos with no raise? Computer analysis suggests that JTs wins 16% of the time on river against 10 random hands. So isn't that quite good to continue playing?

Kenny

[Homer]

I would play suited connectors before I would play small pairs in the game described. Suited connectors win more than their fair share (e.g. more than 10% of the time against 9 random hands) and do not need to rely solely on implied odds to be playable. Small pairs, however, rely on implied odds, and are not as playable for multiple bets preflop. Please correct me if I am wrong. I posted a question on the subject of small pairs and suited connectors a while back, and did not get many responses.

[Homer]

Yes, absolutely play this hand. I would raise with it in late position after many limpers. It wins more than its fair share, so the raise is beneficial in that respect, plus you may get a free card on the turn.

[J.A.Sucker]

There's a huge difference between a game that's constantly capped and one where it's multiway for only 1 or 2 bets preflop. I was under the impression that things were being capped. In games with many limpers, many suited hands like 78s and even 67s can be played on the button or in LP. I'd raise these hands after many limpers to build a huge pot. I'd also play hands like 9Ts UTG if I knew that the preflop action wouldn't be too out of control, but folding these hands if you think that the action can get crazy is a safe play and will spare you much aggrevation. Hands like AJo suck (even more than normal) in games like this. Note that winning hands in loose games come from made hands that can stand a lot of action, usually sets, straights, and flushes. 2 pair can be made with many hands, and while top 2 is much stronger than bottom 2, you're gonna get to a showdown either way. When pots are contested multiway, top-pair, top-kicker just ain't gonna be good that often. Play big drawing hands. The most important thing in these games is to play more hands in LP but to be very tight in EP. Also, sets win more than their fair share. I'd play all pairs in EP, big suited connectors (suited broadway cards and ATs and better), and play big pairs, AK, AQ, and nothing else. This is actually a lot of hands. In LP, suited connectors like 78s and better are playable, as are Axs and even Kxs if you can get in cheaply. Raising to build a gigantic pot is often a good idea, especially if you can ensure last position on the flop. I remember a hand where I had A9s on the button, got a 7 handed pot where I raised on the button. All checked to me, when one of my suit flopped. I checked, since I had no other draws. Needless to say, I caught runner-runner, got lots of action since nobody put me on the nuts, and everyone cussed me for being the luckiest player alive. Postition, position, position. Good luck.

[drewjustdrew]

Practice poker on yahoo.com until you are able to beat the game regularly, then go to the casino with no less than $1500 for the 10-20 game. You may still lose this in a bad run of cards.

Thanks again for the advise. I thought about it after 4 sessions or so and I totally agree with what you just said. This game is almost exactly what Lee Jones has described in his book "How to win low-limit hold'em" as a super loose game, though he was talking about a game around the level of 2-4 or 3-6. The game is generally loose and quite passive with 1-2 maniacs that are aggressive if triggered (if you know what i mean). All in all, I told myself this is the game to play for the next half a year before I move on to other games.

I am just very confused that I am not beating the game easily as I do with a tighter passive game /forums/images/icons/confused.gif .

nykenny

[skp]

It depends on how aggressive the players are postflop. If they are ultra aggressive postflop, you don't want suited connectors but the pair is golden if you make a set. If they are passive postflop, you don't mind having the suited connectors as much (although I would still prefer the pocket pair).

In these loose games, I play small pairs from any position. I will also call a raise with 22 if I think that there will be or 5 or more players taking the flop although your implied odds are clearly wrecked if you think it's going to be capped preflop with regularity. In those games, you can't play small pairs profitably. Most loose games have one raise with multiple players taking the flop. There, I'll play any pair in any position.

I don't play suited connectors (i.e. 87s and the like) in early position but may play them in late position.

[Homer]

Good point regarding level of aggression postflop. Suited connectors like passive postflop play, small pairs like aggressive postflop play....thanks

[Kevin J]

If pots are routinely going to 3 and 4 bets before the flop, I think you should be playing very tight regardless of how many players are seeing a flop. If you can get in for one bet, that's different. Then you should be playing as many hands as reasonably possible.

Read the loose game section in HPFAP (also the section on maniacs).

I also think you should keep good records. No offense, but statements like "pretty much broke even" usually means a loss. Vague records create false assumptions. Good luck.

couldn't agree more, thank you both.

nykenny