JJ Flops set - going for overcalls

[FreakDaddy]

This table was very loose and two of the players in this hand were quite loose/aggresive. Lots of people were playing wreckless hands and cold calling A LOT.I had already won over 70BB in an hour at this table when this hand came up and I decided to go for the overcalls because I feared betting into this hand would limit the field. This was a risky play, but calculated. Any critiques appreciated!

1/2 10 Handed
Hero is UTG with J /images/graemlins/heart.gif,J /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, LP calls, CO folds, SB folds, BB folds
(11 SB)

Flop - J /images/graemlins/club.gif,6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif,8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, LP Bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP3 raises, LP calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls (10 BB)

MP3 bet almost every flop, so I checked thinking he would bet. When he doesn't I fear it gettign checked through, but LP steps in and bets. LP was a fairly solid player. The remaining 3 were fairly loose/aggressive. Fortunately, as suspected, MP3 check-raises the flop, so I'm feeling much better.

Turn - 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 bets, LP raises, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls (18BB)

I think this is standard, but am I missing bets? Comments?

River - 10 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Hero checks, UTG+1 Bets, MP3 raises, LP Calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls (26BB)

Now the river is a bit scary and MP3 betting into it gives me goose bumps, but I decide to call down because I thought this tabel would be betting with almost anything and I didn't put him on a flush draw. Comments??

[zeropotential]

For god sakes bet! People need to stop slowplaying around here... there are times and places for it, but they come very rarely. When in doubt, dont slowplay!

[KaiShin]

I don't like it. If you're going to slowplay, at least raise the turn.

[Shillx]

I had already won over 70BB in an hour at this table when this hand came up

Could have read...

I had already won over 120BB in an hour at this table when this hand came up

Brad

[FreakDaddy]

[ QUOTE ]
For god sakes bet! People need to stop slowplaying around here... there are times and places for it, but they come very rarely. When in doubt, dont slowplay!

[/ QUOTE ]

I trust my reads on the table very much. Like I said, I had a lot of very loose/ aggressive and bad players at this table. If you have some specific critique I'd like to hear it. Normally I wouldn't slow play this hand, but I'm in early position with very bad players. The only one I'm seriously worried about is LP.

[cold_cash]

This is my rule of thumb:

When I flop a set, I bet and raise.

[FreakDaddy]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like it. If you're going to slowplay, at least raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raise the turn and have UTG+1 face 3 bets cold? hmmm....

[btspider]

i have ordered this shirt and sent it to your house. please wear it and don't do this again..


http://www.backspingolf.co.uk/oob/lt-slowplay.jpg

[zeropotential]

okay, find maybe I can see a reason to slowplay the flop... uncordinated fairly unconnected and your holding 2 of the 3 TP cards... but the turn! you have to act here! bet out or c/r!

[FreakDaddy]

[ QUOTE ]
I had already won over 70BB in an hour at this table when this hand came up

Could have read...

I had already won over 120BB in an hour at this table when this hand came up

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously I respect your opinion Brad. With my reads was this a bad play?

[zeropotential]

amazing bt

[FreakDaddy]

[ QUOTE ]
i have ordered this shirt and sent it to your house. please wear it and don't do this again..


http://www.backspingolf.co.uk/oob/lt-slowplay.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

haha... and my favorite color too!!

[cold_cash]

[ QUOTE ]
I trust my reads on the table very much. Like I said, I had a lot of very loose/ aggressive and bad players at this table. If you have some specific critique I'd like to hear it. Normally I wouldn't slow play this hand, but I'm in early position with very bad players. The only one I'm seriously worried about is LP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Loose, aggressive and bad players are exactly the ones you want to flop sets against, and they're also the ones that you DON'T want to slowplay against. Bet and let them raise so you can 3-bet. Bet and let them call with crap that has almost no chance of winning. Bet! Raise! Win a big pot!

Don't get cute against these guys, they won't believe you have a good hand anyway, so just stuff it from the get go.

[KaiShin]

He called two cold didn't he?

The board is severely draw heavy. You have the advantage on the turn, but its not a big one. I'd push it.

[KaiShin]

Dude, where can I order that shirt? I'm wearing it to my next tourney /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[FreakDaddy]

I don't want to be results oriented, but some feedback besides saying don't slowplay would be helpful /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Results in white:
<font color="white">UTG+1 mucks
MP3 - 10d,Jd
LP - 8c,8h
Hero Jc,Jh (wins 26 BB)
</font>

[milesdyson]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I had already won over 70BB in an hour at this table when this hand came up

Could have read...

I had already won over 120BB in an hour at this table when this hand came up

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously I respect your opinion Brad. With my reads was this a bad play?

[/ QUOTE ]
You raised first in and checked the flop with a set. There's only one J left in the deck now dude, most likely no one has it. So you're hoping someone in LP bets so what, you can face the field with 2 cold on the flop? Just bet.

Don't get yourself into situations where you have to wonder "Hmm, I checked and now I don't want to look like I have a good hand or make people fold" or where you give drawing hands infinite odds to beat you.

In general, fastplay sets and don't expect someone to bet when you were the only preflop aggressor.

[Shillx]

Like I said, I had a lot of very loose/ aggressive and bad players at this table.

This makes betting and raising even more attractive. If you bet the flop, the LAGs will raise allowing you to go for 3-bets. They might even raise the turn for you, allowing you to get 3-bets there.

You said you had won 70BB in an hour. It is very hard to do that unless multiple people are overplaying weak hands against your strong hands. You flopped the top set here. People will play back at you with hands like top pair, mid pair and 2-pair. All of these hands are DRAWING DEAD against you and they will give you all the action you want. You have to bet into them to give them a chance to overplay their hands. They can't do it when you check and call.

Brad

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't want to be results oriented, but some feedback besides saying don't slowplay would be helpful /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

this hand is outrageously easy to play correctly. bet-raise at every opportunity.

--

KaiShin, for the shirt
site (http://www.backspingolf.co.uk/oob/lt-slowplay.htm)

i just did a google image search for slowplay, so i have no idea who this vendor is..

[FreakDaddy]

[ QUOTE ]
Like I said, I had a lot of very loose/ aggressive and bad players at this table.

This makes betting and raising even more attractive. If you bet the flop, the LAGs will raise allowing you to go for 3-bets. They might even raise the turn for you, allowing you to get 3-bets there.

You said you had won 70BB in an hour. It is very hard to do that unless multiple people are overplaying weak hands against your strong hands. You flopped the top set here. People will play back at you with hands like top pair, mid pair and 2-pair. All of these hands are DRAWING DEAD against you and they will give you all the action you want. You have to bet into them to give them a chance to overplay their hands. They can't do it when you check and call.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

Very true. I havily debated 3-betting the turn, but something told me not to. Damn demons in my head or something. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Question is, with the read would you have bet the flop? Normally I would. I guess I'm at that stage in my poker development where I think my reads are very solid and I'm trying to apply them more to the table. I understand aggresive players would have re-raised, but I'm a bit lost at where to raise/bet on this hand. Lead the turn?

[Shillx]

You flopped the top set and didn't bet or raise EVEN ONE TIME and you think it could very well be SOP? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

I'm sorry but I really hope you know that you screwed this hand up badly. You don't get set over set very often and when you do, you need to take full advantage.

Brad

[KaiShin]

I find it hilarious that its originally a golf shirt.

Now I have two places to wear it, although it might get my ass kicked on the golf course. I think my handicap has to be calculated be NASA /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[FreakDaddy]

[ QUOTE ]

You raised first in and checked the flop with a set. There's only one J left in the deck now dude, most likely no one has it. So you're hoping someone in LP bets so what, you can face the field with 2 cold on the flop? Just bet.

Don't get yourself into situations where you have to wonder "Hmm, I checked and now I don't want to look like I have a good hand or make people fold" or where you give drawing hands infinite odds to beat you.

In general, fastplay sets and don't expect someone to bet when you were the only preflop aggressor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very helpful advice. All of that was considered. I had countless people betting with overcards on this table and MP3 and MP1 must have done it about 4-5 times since I sat down at the table.

Thanks again. I understand the general roles of poker though, but helpful none the less.

[FreakDaddy]

[ QUOTE ]
You flopped the top set and didn't bet or raise EVEN ONE TIME and you think it could very well be SOP? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

I'm sorry but I really hope you know that you screwed this hand up badly. You don't get set over set very often and when you do, you need to take full advantage.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't post it for no reason. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Do you just play ABC poker then? How often do you apply your reads to the table effectively?

[Shillx]

Do you just play ABC poker then?

ABC poker gets the money dude.

[radek2166]

Yup. ABC poker gets the money.

Lets see. You let all these people draw to a flush and a straight.

My question is this if you would have lost this hand would you have posted it?

I think when a person wins playing a hand this poorly all it does is reenforce piss poor play.

The board was not scary on the flop. All you did was let the board get scary and increase the chances for someone sucking out on you.

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You flopped the top set and didn't bet or raise EVEN ONE TIME and you think it could very well be SOP? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

I'm sorry but I really hope you know that you screwed this hand up badly. You don't get set over set very often and when you do, you need to take full advantage.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't post it for no reason. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Do you just play ABC poker then? How often do you apply your reads to the table effectively?

[/ QUOTE ]

uh lets see, you horribly misapply a read into taking a terrible line, and then call them out for critizing you?

damn dude you [censored] this hand up, its an easy one to play