Hmmm AQs hand

[Shillx]

There were multiple 2+2er's at the table for this hand, and I got some strange reactions from them. Take a look.

No real read on anyone. The villian seems like a reasonable 25/8/1.2 player after 30 hands. No read on the 3rd player except that he bought in short.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Superhero is SB with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="blue">Villian raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, Superhero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (9 SB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Superhero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Villian bets</font>, MP3 calls, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Superhero raises</font>, Villian calls, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Superhero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Villian raises</font>, MP3 calls, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">Superhero 3-bets</font>, Villian calls, MP3 calls.

River: (17.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Superhero checks...

How have I played it up to this point? What do you think of the river check? (I honestly don't know what to think of it at this point.)

So if you are in my shoes and you have checked the river (be it right or wrong), what is the plan should the villian bet and MP3 calls? Villian bets and MP3 folds? Also, what do you put the villian on in this spot? I'll give thoughts tomorrow if it proves to be interesting.

Brad

[Peter Harris]

weird weird weird. I am at a loss too.

Looking at the hand, i guess villian may play QJs, AJ, maybe KQ /images/graemlins/spade.gif that way? The fact you weren't capped on the turn means i doubt KT is out there. A set is possible, as the villian is a bit passive, but would raise AA QQ JJ.

The third man is concerning too. But totally unreadable; i thing a calling station is more likely than someone slowwwwwplaying.

I call the river. The pot will be nearly 20BB and top 2 pair should win 5% of the time here, so it's sensible to call down and see what the blue christ both players have.

In conclusion:
Villain has either AA QQ JJ AJ (AQ) QJs or KQ /images/graemlins/spade.gif
MP3 will fold the river or show some crap. It may be T8 and he drags the pot, or 99 for the rivered set, but that's poker.

However, your holding is good enough to take 1 in 19 or 20, so a calldown has to be correct.

Am i off? i did say at the top it was weird...

Regards,
Pete Harris

[Dave G.]

I would call on the river in both situations if it's one bet. Is there any reason not to? Does Villain open-raise KT? Does he play a set of As, Qs or Js this slowly? Those are the only ways I can see you reasonably being beaten. I don't know what the other player is holding onto here.

I put villain on KQ, possibly KQ /images/graemlins/spade.gif .

[Chris Daddy Cool]

hi only i am allowed to use superhero in the hand converter and a real super hero would have bet the river.

[Big Folder]

Because of the turn spade I would narrow his holdings down to a pair with a 4-card gutshot(the ten) and a flush draw. This is the only reason why he'd raise the turn after the c/r bet into him because otherwise he should have 3-bet the flop.

If i'm correct he has a huge draw and is semibluffing/value betting?

When the river comes, if I checked, i would check raise a bet from villian but just call a bet from mp3. The 9 completes an OESD draw which explains why he hung around without betting. (Is this weak or is this prudent given the sitiation?) And I think you have villian beat so might as well get him to overcall for an extra bet.

I say villian has kqs or he also has AQ but feared the set or straight.

Theres a chance he would play AA, QQ or JJ this way fearing the floped straight but i wouldnt say this is likely. I dont think he would have open raised in mp with qjs

[ArturiusX]

[ QUOTE ]
hi only i am allowed to use superhero in the hand converter and a real super hero would have bet the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's closing in on your post count ya know....... Aren't you going to do something about that?!

[Reef]

[ QUOTE ]
a real super hero would have bet the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

[KingOtter]

Why aren't people putting villain on AK?

He's 25/8/1.2. Which means he's TA-passive. He won't cap it on the flop with an AK, most likely.

I think I would have still bet the river. He's passive enough that you can expect just about anything except AA, but your two pair dominates potential 2-pair holdings he has.

I would have bet out on the river, and call a raise.

KO

[Big Folder]

On the flop I would consider AK even though he didn't 3-bet it. But that doesnt explain why he would raise the turn when a 3s comes down after just calling a c/r on the flop? Sometimes weaker players freak out to a c/r and just call but that doesnt really explain the turn raise, unless he wanted to see if your c/r was just a move. I figured the spade helped him out but that would eliminate AK since the As is on the board. Thats why I dont think AK, but I'd also like to hear why everyone else eliminated it because my first instinct was AK.

[droolie]

I bet the river and call a raise. I think it's likely he has a set of J's but is concerned you have a made str8. His stop n gos scream protection raises.

I bet the river on the chance he has AJ or AK and wants a cheap showdown.

Given the fact that you checked if villian bets and MP3 calls I check raise (villian will not reraise and we'll get more $$ out of MP3 when we're ahead)

If MP3 folds I just call. I think this is a coin flip between you and villian.

[coinflip]

[ QUOTE ]
He's closing in on your post count ya know....... Aren't you going to do something about that?!

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Shillx
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 10/20/04
Posts: 3959

[/ QUOTE ]

~4000 posts in less than less than 5 months, or about 30 posts a day, each and every day. Now that's a dedicated 2+2'er /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[TALLBrad]

The check raise of the flop was interesting, guess that's the better way to do it since the pre-flop aggressor is to your left.

I'm also not sure of the check on the River, what happens if both decide to check through? Of course I'd expect you to raise if it comes back to you for a single bet.

As far as reads, if villian had a set he's just not betting it, so it's more likely he's got AK top pair, maybe two pair AQ, AJ. I doubt that he has the KT for a straight. MP3 has me confused, cold calling raises, he could be on a flush draw spades but really who knows, if he shows aggression like raising a river bet by Villian I'd suspect he has a straight.

[afk]

[ QUOTE ]
Why aren't people putting villain on AK?

He's 25/8/1.2. Which means he's TA-passive. He won't cap it on the flop with an AK, most likely.

[/ QUOTE ]

With 30 hands of stats on this guy using the aggression factor is pretty much useless. 30 hands, he's put money in 25% of the time so we have very few hands to judge his postflop aggression on.

I'd also bet the river.

[Dead]

Bet the river. Call a raise.

[Dave G.]

I didn't put him on AK because I think AK would be playing this flop a lot more aggressively. There's an obvious straight draw, and allowing people to see a cheap turn card that could very well ruin his hand seems like a mistake.

He could have been waiting to see if a safe turn card came before committing a lot of money to the pot, but the turn card isn't safe at all with now a flush draw to worry about as well... unless villain has spades.

That's why I ruled out AK. So KQ/images/graemlins/spade.gif seems most likely.

[Shillx]

Hmm interesting that so many people fear a check through here. He isn't going to check a set or AQ/AJ. I doubt he will check AK as well. Anyway the main reason why I checked was to see what MP3 would do. Had it gone bet-fold behind me I would have called. If MP3 had T8 (a possible hand) and made a straight I wanted to know. I figure I'm probably good/tied (but again I don't want to get into a spew fest HU in case he is slowplaying me or whatever) when the villian just calls my turn 3-bet and I want MP3's money going into the pot more then anything. I'm still very much open to betting though and I'll read the replies more in-depth in a bit. Here is the river action.

River: 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Hero /images/graemlins/tongue.gif checks, Villian bets, MP3 calls, Hero raises, Villian calls, MP3 calls.

Villian has AQ for the chop chop.
MP3 has A4 for one pair.

Brad

[Dead]

Told you you should have bet =p

[DeathDonkey]

Your gonna look dumb when he checks through with AK. Not enough hands to really judge his postflop aggression factor though. I either wind up looking like a genius or an idiot when I try these plays, but more times the idiot. I think you have a better idea than me when they will work though, so its probably worth a try. The problem I think is if unknown MP3 is the one to bet the river. Then you don't know what to do.

Ok just read the results and you look like a genius but it worked out the best possible way. Well I guess you are pretty good at picking these spots. I don't know why you got a strange reaction though, they must not be this cool.

Oh I 3 bet preflop.

-DeathDonkey

[toss]

Aweome this Checkraise worked out for you. I don't really know if villain will bet enough times after you've 3-bet him on the turn. Glad it worked out well.