why are party skins against rakeback?

[splashpot]

Unless I'm missing something, the poker site doesn't lose money when players get rakeback. I don't see why it would be against their terms of service. By discontinueing rakeback, all they accomplish is driving high volume players to other sites.

[otctrader]

Rest assured it's not the skin, but the parent/IGM creating the stink.

[splashpot]

Regardless of who creates the stink, it still holds true that the company is losing money by halting rakeback.

[bpb]

Because it creates a situation where some players are getting kickbacks from the affiliate's commission, while other players aren't. This in turn creates situations where players want to change their affiliate tags, thus pissing off the original affiliates.

Affiliate based marketing where you offer commission on the lifetime of the account can get really tricky if you don't handle it right. Party really isn't handling it well.

[bpb]

If Party (et al) decided tomorrow to end all affiliate payments, they would NOT lose money. The business that they would lose would pale in comparison to the affiliate payments they make. They are giving up a full 25%+ of their rake. And the lions share of this goes to affiliates who don't kick back anything to the players.

[Freakin]

Do you really think that affiliates are no help to Party and it's respective skins? Think about the poker community as a whole. How many sites are supported solely by affiliate revenue? I think you underestimate the positive impact affiliates have on Party's growth.

Freakin

[Recliner]

I'm not so sure about that. I would think every internet pro that plays at party and skins has a rakeback deal as well as anyone who plays a large ammount of poker. The people that play the most generate the most money for party and I would think a very high percentage of those people have a rakeback. If they start playing less there would be a huge impact on party's bottom line. Would you rather get 75% of 10k or 100% of 5k? In addition to that party can't take away the MGR payments because then they are going to lose their best marketers. Finding new players seems like a lot of work to do for only $50 compared to taking a gamble on every player you sign up that will generate $50+ a day for as long as they play.

[johnnymac]

Party do not want affiliates offering rakeback as it costs them money (this is disregarding the possibility/fact of players leaving should they put a complete halt to it).

Any poker room/casino is essentially offering affiliates a % payment in exchange for marketing their product, but this is in addition to their own marketing/advertising spend. Most players at a poker room/casino do not actually come through an affiliate tag, but go direct to the website, therefore meaning all earnings go to the product. If party were to allow rakeback they would be at a disadvantage, as their affiliates would be able to offer a better product than them (by returning money to the players), hence more players would be signing up through affiliates, meaning party has to pay more in commissions.

Joe

[PokerHund]

Why would it make sense to allow rake-back-deals ?? All what's happening is that Party loses his own players to another skin. Can't make any sense. And, why would i as an affiliate try to bring in new players when every scumbag can come and take them away from me by offering deals. Being an affiliate means to bring in new players and not stealing them from other affiliates by violating the rules; and just let them play on the same tables through a different skin. I rather have a handfull players that i pay nothing than 100 that i can make the same money from. Hopefully all other sites will smarten up soon and do something against those deals. Rakeback does not bring in a single new Pokerplayer.

[Recliner]

I made sure to get a rakeback deal when I started at party. What I think you fail to realize is that rakeback drives people to play much much much more poker at party and skins. There are many people who make several thousand dollars a month through rakeback which generates over 10k a month for party through that player. If you take away that money that player is going to be loooking for a more profitable place to play and when that place comes around they are going to stop playing at party if they already havn't.

[Kevroc]

[ QUOTE ]
There are many people who make several thousand dollars a month through rakeback which generates over 10k a month for party through that player.

[/ QUOTE ]

YES!! That's a KEY point!

[GrannyMae]

If you take away that money that player is going to be loooking for a more profitable place to play and when that place comes around they are going to stop playing at party if they already havn't.


they won't go anywhere. thanks to some well placed marketing, there will always be more fish at party than anywhere. the high volume rakeback players will be angry, but there is no better game in town right now, even if rakeback were abolished.

what party is doing is either:

1. forcing pokernow out of business because not enforcing this on any skin but PN seems wrong

or

2. getting ready to do this across the board, and simply starting with PN

[Freudian]

I think the big problem is that rakeback lures customers from other Party skins. So basically while the first affiliate you signed up under introduced you to the network and thus deserves his rakeback, that isn't true for the second sign-up.

In this case I think it also hurt the Party skins bottom line and they are the big daddy.

[Jim Kuhn]

Most players signed up first at Party with no rakeback. They then created a second account with a skin and rakeback. The skin's rakeback plans have taken most of Party's best customers.

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
/images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[KaBoom]

This is true. I would have never left party if I would have had rakeback with them. Best tourneys by far compared to empire/eurobet. They have lost tons of customers.

Here is what Party Poker should do.

Create a new skin and offer rakeback directly like Pokerchamps. Send their whole customer base an email and tell them this. Name the site something similar like pokerparty.com. I'd go back!

[GrannyMae]

[ QUOTE ]
This is true. I would have never left party if I would have had rakeback with them. Best tourneys by far compared to empire/eurobet. They have lost tons of customers.

Here is what Party Poker should do.

Create a new skin and offer rakeback directly like Pokerchamps. Send their whole customer base an email and tell them this. Name the site something similar like pokerparty.com. I'd go back!

[/ QUOTE ]


oooo, good idea.

then we can move on and try UB-2... umm, i guess i meant UB-3

[Crowsnest]

Imagine the scenario,

There are numerous large Party affiliates with huge "stables" of poker pros and other high volume players suddenly not getting rakeback.

What if one of the other top-5 sites offered a rakeback deal to scoop a large percentage of these players....Say Paradise offered these large affiliates a rake back to any of their customers, even those with an account already (one that has no affiliate conxn yet). A lot of us have Pstars and Paradise accounts that we just use for reloads, while doing the bulk of our play for rakeback.

In one fell swoop, the faltering paradise or UB could massively increase their volume and stab Party while it messes around.

Cheers

Crowsnest

[bvaughn]

and where are the fish going to come from?

[Crowsnest]

There will be so many p!ssed off multitabling rakebackers that at least a good chunk of them would be willing to try the waters at UB or stars with a Rakeback deal. These affiliates representing hunreds of thousands of $$$'s in rake are not without some persuasive powers with the poker sites.

Many multitabling 3-6 and 2-4 players would be willing to try elsewhere if they are still getting the 1BB/hr in rake back. As these sites grow fish will be drawn....Pstars is fishier these days than in the past...

Party still may be fishiest but won't ne forever. Also they should not take for granted their industry leading numbers in this rapidly mutating industry.

All I was suggesting is that the #2-5 sites should be aware of the opportunity this could present and act fast. High volume players are being cut loose, and should be courted with what they like....$$$$....If not fishy enough, tey may wander back....but these other sites should try and coax them.

Cheers

Crowsnest

[Punker]

They make more by abolishing rakeback if they do it and you don't leave. They would be essentially gambling that most won't leave and that it simply represents a ~20% increase in revenue from their busiest players.

[kdog]

[ QUOTE ]
Most players signed up first at Party with no rakeback. They then created a second account with a skin and rakeback. The skin's rakeback plans have taken most of Party's best customers.

[/ QUOTE ]

This says it all.

[housenuts]

[ QUOTE ]
If Party (et al) decided tomorrow to end all affiliate payments, they would NOT lose money. The business that they would lose would pale in comparison to the affiliate payments they make. They are giving up a full 25%+ of their rake. And the lions share of this goes to affiliates who don't kick back anything to the players.

[/ QUOTE ]

how can you say this? the only reason i play at PokerNOW was for the rakeback. if i don't get the rakeback i won't play there. thus they lose money.

[AAmaz0n]

[ QUOTE ]
If you take away that money that player is going to be loooking for a more profitable place to play and when that place comes around they are going to stop playing at party if they already havn't.


they won't go anywhere. thanks to some well placed marketing, there will always be more fish at party than anywhere. the high volume rakeback players will be angry, but there is no better game in town right now, even if rakeback were abolished.


[/ QUOTE ]

I have to respectfully disagree with this. Despite the constant talk of how wonderfully "fishy" Party is, I make more BB/100 on Paradise and UB, and about the same on Stars - and all with less variance. The games are more weak-tight and less crazy aggressive. It's a different style of play, but more profitable and less stress for me.

The only reason for me to put up with playing on any of the Party skins is either to clear a bonus or because I'm getting rakeback to make up for the lower win rate and increased variance. With no rakeback, I'd only ever play on the Party skins if I was clearing a bonus.

Assuming for a moment that the win rate, variance, and rake were all the same for Party/skins and Stars, UB, and Paradise and there was no bonus to chase, I would play at any of the other three before I would go to Party; the software and customer service are all better at the other sites. I really don't think that the fish factor at Party is all that much better to make up for their poor interface and abysmal customer service.

Maybe others have a very different experience, but I haven't seen any significant increase in my win rate playing Party/skins than the other major sites I mentioned or True, Prima, et al for that matter. I think that the way you play and make profit varies a bit depending on the texture of the game, but I don't seem to experience any significant difference in win rate from one site to another. Higher volume does make for easier table selection, but there are a lot of sites out there to shop around if you are looking for a g00t game.

Shauna