Misapplied the c/c play?

[QTip]

This afternoon was full of discussions about the c/c, c/c, bet HU play. I was pretty excited about learning about it, and even posted that I wondered how long it would be before I misapplied it...I don't think it took long. How many ways did I muck this hand up?

MP2 is SL-A

Ultimate Bet 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP2 posts a blind of $2.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: (2.50 SB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (2.25 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls.

I think I should have raised here; however, that wouldn't be misapplying what I learned today and was excited to use...so I had to call.

River: (4.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Oh yeah...I was supposed to bet the river.

Final Pot: 6.25 BB

[Harv72b]

Raise preflop. A6o is well ahead of a random hand.

Bet/call the flop. You've got an A and an OESD. There's also a good chance that you have the best hand with A high.

Bet the turn. You now have TP+OESD, and you don't want to give a free card to a flush draw or lone 8 (that could get expensive).

I have no problem with a check/call on the river, especially if you'd bet out the other streets. If he missed his draw, give him a chance to fire a shot at you.

It only gets tricky if you bet/call the flop and he raises your turn bet. Whether I pay off depends largely on just how aggressive he is postflop (on the river in particular, if you have a large enough sample to get such a specific read).

[QTip]

Thought I butchered the crap out of this.

I have to tell you though, I nevered dreamed of raising out of that BB...I'm dying to hear if other people are doing that. If so, I've been missing out on raises.

Thanks for the comments.

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
I have to tell you though, I nevered dreamed of raising out of that BB...I'm dying to hear if other people are doing that. If so, I've been missing out on raises.

Thanks for the comments.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm only suggesting the PFR in this one instance, because the only other player in the pot was a poster. I might also raise if I had 1 very loose limper, but I like that play less--I like the PFR in this hand because you might just steal the pot preflop.

[QTip]

I gotcha Harv...good thought.

Thanks

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
Thought I butchered the crap out of this.

I have to tell you though, I nevered dreamed of raising out of that BB...I'm dying to hear if other people are doing that. If so, I've been missing out on raises.

Thanks for the comments.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, I'm raising this too. I'd raise this vs a SB limper also.

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd raise this vs a SB limper also.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point.

[Shillx]

The check/call line is best used when you are up against someone has shown strength and may or may not have a better hand then you. MP2 has done nothing to indicate that he has a strong hand. You should fire away at the flop and keep betting until he tells you not to bet anymore.

Brad

[QTip]

Thanks for the clarification Brad. I'm the king of misapplication when I first start to learn something new.

Now, to be clear...

The c/c line that we talked about today when we're first to act ends with us leading the river, correct?

[TheHip41]

I don't like your line. I think you got it backwards.

Heads up, with your draw, you should have bet the flop, turn, and river.

With c/c the flop, c/r the turn all day. Even if you get 3 bet, you have 8 outs to the best hand.

[masonx]

do you think this play would work against typical 2/4 player? what exactly is the goal of this play?

[QTip]

The goal was....I suck

I was trying to find a place to apply something I learned early in the day instead of letting the situation find me.

[CallMeIshmael]

I like a raise here. I'm not a big fan of raising A-little when there is no chance of picking up the pot preflop though(ie. against a limper, other than perhaps the small blind, because I have position).

BTW, bet the flop, bet the turn. River could go either way.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop. A6o is well ahead of a random hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking about this hand while jogging last night (poker pops in once in a while)

Villian's hand is worse than random here. I'm not sure what the percentage is, but if I'm villian, I'm raising A LOT here. Maybe as high as 65% of my hands.

Mason's article this month relates to this.

[Elizabeth]

[ QUOTE ]


I think I should have raised here; however, that wouldn't be misapplying what I learned today and was excited to use...so I had to call.


[/ QUOTE ]
Well, at least you have a pair of aces with a weak kicker, and a open ended straight draw. The pot's pretty small so those are a couple reasons to play this slow. Another way to put it is that if MP is bluffing, then you want to wait until the river to make the raise. If you're behind to 2 pair or a better ace, you have tons of outs.

You do end up passing up a very nice value raise on the turn, which you would get called by many worse hands. And if you're behind then you're not far behind. That's the downside to just calling. I do think raising is right but I I doubt not raising is a major error -- I don't think it's likely to cost you the pot.


[ QUOTE ]

River: (4.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Oh yeah...I was supposed to bet the river.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. And as long as you played it this weirdly, you should consider checkraising the river once you checked. If MP had an ace he probably would have risen preflop. I think your hand is good far more than the 55% of the time they say you need to raise.