Teachers ARE overpaid and lazy....

[zaxx19]

Liberals Pwned by Zaxx and evidence....Link below.

Background: I stated that the avg teachers salary in my home district(214) in the Suburbs of Chicago was 70-80k got flamed by some dufus monkeyass Commies.....talking about how I was full of crap and how the teachers are UNDERPAID.

You can apologize below liberals. http://www.thechampion.org/teach2000/teacheravgsal.asp

I provide a listing of all the suburban chicago area districts here. And in the same sight it explains the avg teacher TEACHES ABOUT 8 months of class a yr.

Oh BTW this is 5 years ago so add about 10% bc you know those greedy ass teachers are gonna get raises.

[mmbt0ne]

I can't believe I voted for the same president as you. You are the scum of the earth. You're mischaracterizations of teachers absolutely astound me. Lazy? Please tell me why you think this. Is it because they "[TEACH] ABOUT 8 months of class a yr?" That site you listed doesn't say anything about the income being influenced by the summer school that most teachers teach. But, I won't go so far as to assume that would make them worthwhile full time employees in your eyes.

You do understand that their job involves more than just teaching too right? They grade all the assignments, plan all of their lessons and classes, and this is all done outside of work. And heaven forbid the teachers of Sangamon Roe district have an average salary of $23201. Those bastard Rockefellers and Carnegies have nothing on the teachers of Illinois.

[FrankieFish]

[ QUOTE ]
I stated that the avg teachers salary in my home district(214) in the Suburbs of Chicago was 70-80k

[/ QUOTE ]

Conveniently, the biased site to which you refer does NOT show

1) Median income for teachers in all districts
2) Mean income for teachers in all districts
3) Mean family income in each district

...you see where I'm going with this?

The site shows a top-heavy list of average salaries to inflame the passions of people incapable of critical thinking. It's propaganda -- well done propaganda -- but transparent nonetheless.

I pity you for being so easily subverted.

[zaxx19]

Oh some of them even worked a whole yr(Minus a billion vacation days)....oh my they might die of overexertion someone get them a stretcher immediately.

Look, the fact is I stated a fact, was flamed, now provide evidence of that fact and get flamed....

I dont know/care what you experience has been with High School teachers...I know mine were excellent for the most part and deserved decent pay. Did they deserve 110k(as one of my teachers made) to work 2/3rds of a yr.......ABSOLUTELY NOT.

[FrankieFish]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh some of them even worked a whole yr(Minus a billion vacation days)....oh my they might die of overexertion someone get them a stretcher immediately.

Look, the fact is I stated a fact, was flamed, now provide evidence of that fact and get flamed....

I dont know/care what you experience has been with High School teachers...I know mine were excellent for the most part and deserved decent pay. Did they deserve 110k(as one of my teachers made) to work 2/3rds of a yr.......ABSOLUTELY NOT.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is lowering teacher salaries going to provide any incentive for excellent work?

Are you a communist?

[lastchance]

Ditto. Scroll down, please. These statistics are 5 years old, so they are worthless.
[ QUOTE ]

Increase pay?? The avg HS teacher in my local district makes like 79k for working 2/3rds a yr plus an unparalleled pension plan..freeze their wages dont increase them.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, note that this is true. Also note that this is incredibly misleading, as we are pointing to a specific district within hundreds in a city, and hundred of thousands in the US.

Also note that your original quote included a pension plan, which is certainly worth a lot in a teacher's salary, subtracting that is a lot too.

I'd bet only 10% of schools on that list actually have an average 70k salary.

[cardcounter0]

I don't think I could survive on a mere 100k a year.
Good thing I'm not a teacher.

[Chris Alger]

[ QUOTE ]
I stated that the avg teachers salary in my home district(214) in the Suburbs of Chicago was 70-80k got flamed by some dufus monkeyass Commies.....talking about how I was full of crap and how the teachers are UNDERPAID.


[/ QUOTE ]
You forgot to mention that the full name of your "home district in (214) is "Township High School District 214," that it's salaries are in the top 2% of salaries paid to teachers in suburban Chicago (with the average about half that), and that the equalized assessed property values per pupil average about half a million dollars, that your district has some of the highest rated high schools in the state (according to the Chicago Sun-Times link in your link).

You live in or near the affluent community of Mt. Prospect/Arlington Heights. Most of your neighbors want much better than average schools and therefore pay for them. Your inference that teachers generally are therefore "overpaid and lazy" makes you very much, like most conservative bellyachers, "full of crap."

[AngryCola]

Are you still here?

That's cute.

[vanirra rice]

Move to Israel. No one likes you.

[zaxx19]

Israel...probably not.

Misleading hmmm here is the original quote I made. It was immediately dismissed as false. My post here while inflammatory simply proved what I asserted no more and certainly no less.


Increase pay?? The avg HS teacher in my local district makes like 79k for working 2/3rds a yr plus an unparalleled pension plan..freeze their wages dont increase them.

Please note this DOES NOT INCLUDE PENSIONS.

P.S. Arlingotn Heights is certainly a solidly middle to upper middle class neighborhood but hardly could be described as rich or affluent by any means.

There it is folks black and white. Whine if you must but facts are facts and the teachers in my district are in my estimation overpaid...and grossly so.

[lastchance]

Looking back at the initial quote in context, I should have (and I bet someone did) made the obviously correct counterpoint that your school district is not representative of most school districts, and certainly not of the school districts we were initially discussing.

[cardcounter0]

I think 79k in Arlington Heights would make you part of the "working poor" there. No thanks.

[FrankieFish]

[ QUOTE ]
Israel...probably not.

Misleading hmmm here is the original quote I made. It was immediately dismissed as false. My post here while inflammatory simply proved what I asserted no more and certainly no less.


Increase pay?? The avg HS teacher in my local district makes like 79k for working 2/3rds a yr plus an unparalleled pension plan..freeze their wages dont increase them.

Please note this DOES NOT INCLUDE PENSIONS.

P.S. Arlingotn Heights is certainly a solidly middle to upper middle class neighborhood but hardly could be described as rich or affluent by any means.

There it is folks black and white. Whine if you must but facts are facts and the teachers in my district are in my estimation overpaid...and grossly so.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who's making 70K and is not overpaid? What makes someone "overpaid?"

[zaxx19]

I think that there were 22 districts or so that had teachers earning on avg over 75k in Illinois in 2003....

Thats not not a small sampling thats almost all of suburban Chicago.

Suburban Chicago= 3.5 million people or so....

Remember one district does not equal 1 High School usually around 3-4 @ 1900 kids a school.

[FrankieFish]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that there were 22 districts or so that had teachers earning on avg over 75k in Illinois in 2003....

Thats not not a small sampling thats almost all of suburban Chicago.

Suburban Chicago= 3.5 million people or so....

Remember one district does not equal 1 High School usually around 3-4 @ 1900 kids a school.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do the suburban teachers make more money?

[cardcounter0]

because the people that live in the suburbs make a lot more than 79k ?
/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[lastchance]

22 districts out of how many?

[DyessMan89]

There are very few people that I feel dont deserve to live. You are one of them.

[thatpfunk]

You're an idiot zaxx. im quitting this forum.

here it is AGAIN

Avg salary for teachers in the US is $45k (2003)

its very easy to find.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Wow, you really deserve the flaming you are getting.

[chabibi]

I don’t know how things are in the states but the statement zaxx made is pretty true for Ontario. Take for example my high school calc teacher, he taught 3 classes per semester (which is the maximum work load a teacher can have in Ontario) with one prep period a day and 3 hours of mandatory extracurricular activities a week. That equals 28 hours a week of actual work for less than 8 months a year. As far as marking goes, he had 75 students per semester and had 7 tests and 1 exam per student to mark. That means he only had 600 papers a semester to mark since he never collected homework or assignments and was given 1 hour and fifteen minuets of paid time a day to do his marking. For all his hard work he got paid like 75 grand a year plus a great benefits package and an even better pension plan and he had unlimited job security as long as he didn’t hit or molest a student. In fact after high school I was considering on becoming a teacher for those reasons. Of course I reconsidered since im to greedy and care to much about money to settle for an 80k a year job, even if it is a very laid back job


Ill never forget what my school rugby coach once told me. During a workout we got on the subject of teaching and asked him how he liked teaching as opposed to his old job in sales, which he had quit two years earlier to become a high school teacher. He said teaching was the greatest and easiest job he had ever had and loved having his summers free. I asked him why then do all my teachers bitch so much about how hard their jobs are. His reply was “simple they’ve never had real jobs before”

[chabibi]

Average salary includes all teacher including 1st and 2nd year teachers who no doubt make much less than teachers with 10 years experience, of course 30k to 40k a year for someone right out of school isn’t a terrible salary. My brother is graduating this year and already has a job as an auditor with a top 5 accounting firm and will be making >50k a year and I can guarantee he will be working many many more hours than any elementary or high school teacher you can find

[thatpfunk]

there are more older teachers than 1 &2 year ones. you are an ignoratn fool

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
Avg salary for teachers in the US is $45k (2003)

[/ QUOTE ]

Odd, that's more than my sister makes and she's a doctor. It makes it pretty difficult to pay off the $250,000 medical school bill.

/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[TransientR]

Chabibi wrote:

"Of course I reconsidered since im to greedy and care to much about money to settle for an 80k a year job, even if it is a very laid back job"

Glad you don't teach English, Chabibi. Do you see why?

Frank

[Dead]

Because his grammar is awful?

[chabibi]

[ QUOTE ]
there are more older teachers than 1 &2 year ones. you are an ignoratn fool

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you suggesting the salaries of new teachers doesn’t not affect the over all average salary of all teachers? Maybe you should consider retaking that grade 12 stats class again

In Ontario, a teacher with six years of education starts at 42k a year and caps at 73k after 11 years, union negotiations ensured that any teacher that has more than 11 years experience earns the maximum salary regardless of performance or what subject is taught. Therefore if the average salary for all teachers is say 50k it is only because of the influence of the salaries of new teachers that brings the average down, since all experienced teachers make 73k/year

source (http://www.education.gov.ab.ca/FactsStats/teacherpaid.asp)

[chabibi]

i know i cant write for [censored], i dont need you to tell me that
thats why im a math major /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

can you believe my english teachers got paid 80 grand a year, and you guys dont think they are overpaid /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[TransientR]

I would think struggling to improve your writing skills would justify paying your teachers more than 80K a year /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Frank

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
I would think struggling to improve your writing skills would justify paying your teachers more than 80K a year /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Frank

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd pay them whatever the superintendent gets paid.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
i know i cant write for [censored], i dont need you to tell me that
thats why im a math major /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

can you believe my english teachers got paid 80 grand a year, and you guys dont think they are overpaid /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I honestly can't believe how underpaid they were for this task.

They should have been paid 150 grand a year for having to deal with your smug attitude and serious grammar deficiencies.

[Dead]

LMAO Zaxx.

The highest average salary on there is around 80k.

You did not specify your school district when making the overpaid teacher argument in the other thread.. The average schoolteacher probably makes in the mid forties, taking the entire nation into account.

And, yeah, they have summers off, but a lot end up teaching during the summer as well.

And they are in school teaching 6 hours a day but also have to do probably 15 hours of homework grading per week. It's not an easy job. You should try it before spouting off.

[AngryCola]

Not that I'm one to talk, but how in the hell are you approaching 1,500 posts in just over a month?

Slow down!

It almost reminds me of Hack.

[chabibi]

you have a very skewed world view, you really think any of my teachers ever tried to help me with my grammatical skills or any of their students with any difficulties? are you kidding? that would require putting in more than 28 hours of work a week

[chabibi]

[ QUOTE ]
And they are in school teaching 6 hours a day but also have to do probably 15 hours of homework grading per week. It's not an easy job. You should try it before spouting off.


[/ QUOTE ]

you should talk to my rugby coach/business teacher

[TransientR]

Many of my teachers did not 'take the summer' off. They worked in various capacities, including physical labor. But maybe you don't think painting the outside of houses in the summer heat qualifies as work?

Frank

[chabibi]

[ QUOTE ]
Many of my teachers did not 'take the summer' off. They worked in various capacities, including physical labor. But maybe you don't think painting the outside of houses in the summer heat qualifies as work?



[/ QUOTE ]

what is your point? the fact is they get a two month paid vacation from their full time job. if some teachers choose to use that time to work extra and make some extra money, power to them.

[Dead]

You're directing your anger at the wrong person.

I agree with you.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
Not that I'm one to talk, but how in the hell are you approaching 1,500 posts in just over a month?

Slow down!

It almost reminds me of Hack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry MrCola.

I promise to cut back my postings to under 15 per day for the rest of the month. =p

[nothumb]

Seriously, this crap makes me sick. Qualified people to deal with kids, be it teachers, counselors, clinicians, human services workers, etc, are some of the hardest employees to find, the field has a huge turnover rate and the pay sucks. Why? Because of ridiculous, ignorant crap like this. People demand high quality care and services for their children but are so unwilling to pay for it, it makes me sick. And when anything goes wrong in one of the toughest jobs in the US the first people to get blamed are the educators and child care workers busting their asses for a bunch of ingrates, making less per annum than a plethora of jerkoffs who contribute virtually nothing to society and care about nobody but themselves.

You have never done this kind of work and know nothing about the jobs people do, or you wouldn't have opened your cakehole.

NT

[Dead]

Tune in tomorrow, for Zaxx's posts about how firefighters are overpaid government leeches.

Can you believe that those firefighters make 38k per YEAR and get a week of vacation?

I don't need them, I can fight fires myself.

[Hack]

Do you miss me AC? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif I'm not banned. I've just been playing and relaxing with my kid. Is 1500 posts in 3 months really that many?

By the way, zaxx19, this is an idiotic post imho

[Cyrus]

Actually Shakespeare wrote (as you all know!) that we better "kill first all the lawyers"! What you don't know is that the bard had those words spoken by the villain in his play.

The American state gets primed for the New American Century. Those outside the walls, the "other states", will be dealt with from a position of lawless and assertive power; those inside the walls, the natives, must be lobotomized and rendered into gullible and obedient voters - in so many words - to the point of voting against their own interests.

Those who help in any manner and measure educate the people, be they journalists, teachers, labor leaders or decent people of any kind, are going to be ridiculed, insulted, smeared, hounded, and, whenever possible, thrown in jail.

Teachers are overpaid but football players are not. Journalists are scumbags but self-awarding CEOs are not. Labor unionists are extremists but right-wing televangelists are not. And so on and so forth. What else is new?

[cardcounter0]

What else is new?

The large percentage of the population that swallows the crap spoon fed to them by the powers that be?
/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[whiskeytown]

esp. if he's the one who taught you political science. That would have been money down the drain.

same with statistics/math - that guy wasted his time too judging by the content of your posts. If you continue to spew false info. I'm gonna start blocking your posts...

RB

[Daliman]

THis is tantamount to saying Jews are overpaid and lazy.

[Dead]

Well, I am definitely lazy. But I am the exception.

[InchoateHand]

I want in to ZOG. Nobody ever gives me the [censored] meeting times. I'm so left out. I mean, here I am controlling the media, and I can't even prevent an absolute moron from being elected. Ruling the world from a conspiracy should be easier.

[Dead]

What's ZOG?

Zionist... O something.

But we missed you at the meeting today. Don't worry though, we saved some bagels and lox for you.

[InchoateHand]

Thanks. Its "Zionist Occupied Government," because clearly, by virtue of being a Jew, one is automatically a Zionist, and further, in control of the UN, the Senate and the track-and-field judging of the '95 County meet.

[Dead]

You know that without me, Sup Bro would be nothing.

I was on the board that named him all county in 95. Feldstein and I.

Anyone who thinks that Jews run the UN in this day and age are idiots.

Anyone who thinks that the Jews run the Senate is an idiot as well.

[zaxx19]

Anyone who thinks that the Jews run the Senate is an idiot as well.

Well lets not be too hasty.....

[Chris_P]

This is true, they have the longest holidays out of any profession (except the unemployed) and still whine about getting an average salary......

Case study: my old teacher a Mr R.Rowe was the laziest teacher around he would rely on our sets natural intelligence to get us through the exams he was one lazy bastard.

[sirio11]

[ QUOTE ]

. If you continue to spew false info. I'm gonna start blocking your posts...

RB

[/ QUOTE ]


I already did it

[mmbt0ne]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
This is true, they have the longest holidays out of any profession (except the unemployed) and still whine about getting an average salary......

Case study: my old teacher a Mr R.Rowe was the laziest teacher around he would rely on our sets natural intelligence to get us through the exams he was one lazy bastard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, I know. My roommate ate some of my food earlier this week. But, you know, it's just because black people always steal stuff.

[Zygote]

How? Teachers are shitty because they are undereducated. Their jobs resemble the responsibility of babysitting. Have an undergraduate degree is a joke and it in no way gives you the ability to teach. *At least not with the standards of our Canadian universities.

The problem with the education system is that a lot of teachers have a lack a fundemental theoritical understandings of their material. This often leads to them trying to teach you how you can do well on the upcomming test rarther than you actually learning and being able to retain an understanding of the material. Nobody i knew through school could ever re-write a test a week after they took it. What does that say about what they learned?

[zaxx19]

Well, Im glad at least a few people have the cohones to come out and say that they feel teachers are overpaid....it seems that in the US the teachers union propaganda machine has carried the day with alot of respondents to my thread just spewing of "I hate you bc you dissed teachers" responses.

Not much substance at all was found in those responses that criticized me....in fact nothing meaningful (say data)was shared to refute what I actually said in the beginning which was that in my experience, where I lived, teachers were overpaid(I provided a figure)...and lazy. I was roundly rebuffed in another thread for saying so I was told several times that my figures were not even possible and that teachers were vastly underpaid as a rule and was challenged to "prove" what I had asserted. When I did, those who should then have simply said: "Ok perhaps teachers where you live are a bit overpaid but most are not look at this data I have.." Chose to forgo any further rational discussion and immediately chastise me for daring to challenge the sacrosanct teachers of America.

Some of the responses actually make no logical sense; like someone mentioning that a techer he knew performed labor in the summers...I mean ceretainly that was his choice and he was PAID seperately to do so, so im not sure of what relevance that would be to the discussion. Another poster said that teachers typically need an extra like 15 hours to grade papers a week..Im not sure where he went to school or what subjects he took but at my school many of the courses gave scantron exams(e.g. AP biology) so grading took exactly 2 seconds per student per exam graded...you can do the math on that. I would say even my AP English Lit teacher probably needed no more than 5-10 hours a weeks to grade papers and since he had like 2 off periods a day he could easily cover this without taking any significant amount of work home.

In closing I would say:

We all have had teachers who weve likes and that have been beneficial in our development; but lets not allow personal feelings of affection cloud the fact that teachers have a MUCH less stressful and results oriented job than most Americans. Teachers also have gobs of vacation time perhaps 4X-5X as much as a typical white collar worker...and enjoy state pension funds guaranteed by the taxpayers of the state in which they work which are almost unparalelled in their generosity when compared to those retirement packages offered in the private sector.\\

Whether you personally believe teachers are overpaid or not I dont think the proper way to debate the point is to violently attack someone who asserts that they are as it makes those who claim that the teachers unions have brainwashed alot of Americans seem more and more right.

Plz note I should have specified HS teachers in the subject of my first post.

[xadrez]

For what its worth, my girlfriend is teaching right now in the South Bronx. She gets to work everyday at 7, and is up until 12 midnight, everynight. This is not an exagerration. She grades and does paperwork all weekend, and sometimes has nothing to do on Sundays if shes lucky.

Scantron? Her class doesnt even have textbooks, except for Math. Her science curriculum handed down by the Board of Ed consisted of them telling her "teach them about the 'weather'". Forcing her to go out and develop a weather curriculum from scratch. ALL work, tests, homeworks dittos' etc are photocopied, thousands each month. Mostly this is done outside work at her expense. In fact, shes spent over $1300 of her own money this year buying her own reference materials and making photocopies since the school wont provide it. Thankfully, she gets 200 back from the city, and can write off something like 400 on her taxes, whew!

Additionally, there is the danger everyday at work, that a kid is sporting a gun, knife, or some other weapon. A local gang also tried to burn down the school one day as well. On Halloween, teachers were advised to go home immediately as that is gang initiation day and the past year, a teacher was taken up into a building anf THROWN out the window. Pretty sweet.

Her salary is currently 40 thousand dollars a year, living in NY, which is basically nothing. After 2 Masters degrees, her raise will be to something like 48,000 or so.

She took the job because she wanted to make a difference, not because she wanted the summers off. She left a 6 figure a year job to teach BECAUSE SHE CARES about the education and future of these children as they are headed nowhere but the corner or jail if they are not educated.

She is not lazy, and works harder than anyone I know, or have ever met. Before I get the typical talking point responses to this, let me say that bashing and denigrating teachers is an horrid thing to do and anyone who does is a lower life form in my eyes. You all make me sick.

[zaxx19]

She is not lazy, and works harder than anyone I know, or have ever met. Before I get the typical talking point responses to this, let me say that bashing and denigrating teachers is an horrid thing to do and anyone who does is a lower life form in my eyes. You all make me sick

I respect that you love your GF...and if she works hard for little pay then she deserves a raise..(im sorry is she even a HS teacher??)

Its the 2nd part of what you are saying here that alot of people resent...techers are like everyone else and if the deserve criticism or a chastising people should feel free to speak up without being afraid of this sort of illogical aggression.

There are no talking points...I speak what I perceive to be the truth in MY COMMUNITY, AMONG THE TEACHERS I ENCOUNTERED.

When I stated how much my community teachers made for what amounts to 70% of a work year I was roundly censured and called a liar by people like you. I then provided evidence as per several sarcastic requests...and then was roundly criticized again.

[Chris_P]

EXACTLY!

[Dead]

You were criticized because you made a comment about ALL teachers. You said that teachers are overpaid, without specifying your specific rich district.

[BadBoyBenny]

This is the truth. The teachers in the poorest districts are the ones who deserve the most money. My brother had to student teach at a similar school in North Philly when he was in college. He couldn't do much besides baby sit because he was teaching art to a bunch of gangbangers making threats at him or his property. The work he had to do was worth way more than a teacher's salary.

However, now that he has a nice job teaching at an arts magnate in a rich neighborhood, I'm not so sure if his complaints about not getting paid are valid. If he would do something like contstruction in the summer he could bump his salary from the mid 30's tosomething closer to what most white collar professionals his age would make.

FWIW - I admire your GF, but am glad my brother isn't doing the same thing.

[superleeds]

You get the education system you pay for. Thats why an awful lot of you believe you live in a free and fair society.