Good Follow-Up Aggression or spewing

[Blackjack]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t745)
UTG (t1310)
UTG+1 (t580)
Hero (t1010)
MP2 (t1065)
CO (t855)
Button (t970)
SB (t1465)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t80</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t130</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls t130, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls t50.

Flop: (t435) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t200</font>, MP2 folds, Button folds.

Final Pot: t635

Minraise to me doesn't signify aces - just high cards.. maybe AQ, KQ.

What you do think about leading out on the flop?

It might have worked but was it the correct move?

[Simplistic]

i don't mind the play. if you can take it down right there you're good, if they call or raise you probably know where you are.

[shoeman]

I agree that the min-raise by MP2 does seem like AK, AQ. I'd be more worried about the Button though. What hands will cold call a raise and a re-raise. I'd be worried about another PP. TT or JJ possibly.

Seems to me that this would be a good play heads up and too risky a play in a 3 way pot. I'm assuming you would have folded to a re-raise and gone into check mode had either MP2 or the button called the flop?

BTW, I don't raise 77 here. I call and play for set value.

[Blackjack]

I'm going to sleep if I here so much as a peep from either of them on the flop.

What I'm really trying to ask is...

This kind of move.. It seems too desperate and too aggressive for early stages of an SNG. If I lose this hand, I'm pretty low on chips and even if I do win this, I don't win much.

Should this kind of aggression wait for later stages of the tournament?

[microbet]

I like your bet post-flop.

I like folding preflop. You still have 5 people acting after you.

[shoeman]

[ QUOTE ]
This kind of move.. It seems too desperate and too aggressive for early stages of an SNG. If I lose this hand, I'm pretty low on chips and even if I do win this, I don't win much.

Should this kind of aggression wait for later stages of the tournament?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that pretty much sums up my attitude regarding playing in these types of situations in level 1 and 2 at party. You are out of position and playing in a pot that has been re-raised and cold called. You have second pair with a flush draw on the board. I'd probably check here and see what MP2 and Button did. I have been told I play to tight though.

Now, If you had a better read and thought you could take the pot, than by all means do it. If you do try to take this pot, you need to come out strong...and it appears as though you did just that.

[Blackjack]

See.. People always tout the AGGRESSIVE plays and what not but in a SNG, I think a play like this can get me into a lot of trouble.. especially at the 20+2 level with only T800 chips to start.

The more and more I think analytically about SNGs, the more I want to play like a aggressive rock in stages 1-3.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't raise 77 here. I call and play for set value.

[/ QUOTE ]

[SNOWBALL138]

I think the preflop play here is ok but better suited if you were in slightly later position and the blinds with t50.

The real problem here is the button. He could be slowplaying a big-medium pocket pair. A lotta guys wouldn't just cold-call with a big ace.

If you are reading the preflop reraiser for paint, why not check the flop? That way, the preflop re-raiser can bet behind you, and you get to see what the button does. Thats win-win for you, because if those spots when the button is strong, you save money, and in those spots where your hand is the best hand, you win money.

I tend to do this more with JJ-TT than 77.

I'm glad you posted this hand. I'm enjoying this discussion.

[shoeman]

[ QUOTE ]
See.. People always tout the AGGRESSIVE plays and what not but in a SNG, I think a play like this can get me into a lot of trouble.. especially at the 20+2 level with only T800 chips to start.

The more and more I think analytically about SNGs, the more I want to play like a aggressive rock in stages 1-3.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I think this is exactly how most 2+2ers will recommend playing levels 1-3. I play the 10s and 20s so I can not speak for 50s and above. I play really tight in levels 1-3. Play the big hands strong (you will get callers) and just don't play the marginal hands for the same reason. Of course, level 4/5 is where you turn from rock into maniac.

[shoeman]

[ QUOTE ]
I like your bet post-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think betting into a re-raise and a cold call with 77 is a good idea here? How often can you expect to take down the pot in this situation?

[Blackjack]

[ QUOTE ]
I like folding preflop. You still have 5 people acting after you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Best advice I think was that.
I misplayed it but took down the pot.

[microbet]

Actually, I screwed up my post because I had your position with MP2 mixed up.

I don't fold 77 in the 2nd level without a raise. I call. Then I call a miniraise. I would only call slightly more than a miniraise if there are a lot of callers and I'm closing the action and a set will be fantastic.

If the betting preflop doesn't make me think there is a big pair out there (which it can't since I would have folded), I will make a pot sized bet at a rag flop, unless it doesn't look like it has much chance of working. More than 2 players acting after me, or hyper-aggression after me would lead me to call/fold or in the case of hyper-aggression perhaps bet 1/2 pot and then push the reraise.

Hyper-aggressives though are more likely to slow play a big pair preflop.

[RobGW]

Why are you raising here? The blinds aren't big enough to steal. You have many people to act behind you and if you get played back at you wont know where you are at. If you get cold callers the flop will most likely come with 2 overcards and then what do you do out of position? This just puts you in difficult spots. Why not just limp in and try to catch a set? If you miss you lose $30. If you hit you may double up. Your play worked out his time but I think it is going to put you in big trouble if you continue to play like this. BTW I don't think MP2 minraising you with AA is out of the question.

[UncleDuke]

I agree with the limpers. I'll generally call with any pair for a small fraction of my stack since it has big pot potential. If I get raised preflop, I'll call a small one or give it up on a sizable one so as not to damage my stack too much on a longshot.

I don't think your bet on the flop is an awful move, but in a field where people will call a lot, I wouldn't do it. It doesn't totally cripple you if you fold to a reraise, but it's probably not worth the risk that early in the game unless you feel you'll take it down there most of the time.

[jeffraider]

I'd limp, obviously, and then fold to a raise to 120-130, but call a minraise. The flop I'd be about 50/50 between betting out if it was minraised or no one raised, but in either case the pot would be smaller and my 3/4 pot-sized bet wouldn't be enough chips to really hurt me if it gets raised or called. I think 200 chips is too much postflop this early.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like folding preflop. You still have 5 people acting after you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Best advice I think was that.
I misplayed it but took down the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats not the best advice...not even close. limp.

as far as the best advice/question...see shoeman's post above yours...betting into these two on the flop is -EV. You are not going to take this down enough times to justify it.

I know these two comments I made seem contradictory, but theyre not.