How to get paid?

[zheka]

$50+5 Party. No reads.
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP1 (t475)
Hero (t1900)
CO (t1800)
Button (t930)
SB (t505)
BB (t2735)
UTG (t680)
UTG+1 (t975)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls t30, UTG+1 calls t30, MP1 calls t30, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t125</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, UTG calls t95, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls t95.

Flop: (t450) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

UTG checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero ???

[eastbay]

Check.

eastbay

[nyc999]

Check and let someone make a hand.

[Ryan527h]

[ QUOTE ]

$50+5 Party. No reads.
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP1 (t475)
Hero (t1900)
CO (t1800)
Button (t930)
SB (t505)
BB (t2735)
UTG (t680)
UTG+1 (t975)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls t30, UTG+1 calls t30, MP1 calls t30, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t125</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, UTG calls t95, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls t95.

Flop: (t450) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

UTG checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero ???

[/ QUOTE ]Yeah check, you have a 'made hand.' Try to let them bet into you.

[jah0550]

I disagree with the check. I make a very small bet at the pot(maybe 50 or so). The trick is to severly underbet the pot, so they might try to play back at you. I've been trying this strategy lately and it's been working well, but I only play the $30s and $20s, so what do I know?

[Ryan527h]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with the check. I make a very small bet at the pot(maybe 50 or so). The trick is to severly underbet the pot, so they might try to play back at you. I've been trying this strategy lately and it's been working well, but I only play the $30s and $20s, so what do I know?

[/ QUOTE ]I agree with you to some extent usually depends on the players in the pot, if they are tight or loose, cause some people fold when they are getting 10:1 odds. Sometimes min raising makes you look strong if you are a generally aggressive player. It's all circumstansial, most of the time I check there. But getting more money in the pot earlier never hurt anyone.

[SuitedSixes]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with the check. I make a very small bet at the pot(maybe 50 or so). The trick is to severly underbet the pot, so they might try to play back at you. I've been trying this strategy lately and it's been working well, but I only play the $30s and $20s, so what do I know?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. At the lower levels this works. Min-bet and any monkey with a diamond, ace, four, five, or Draw Two will call you (maybe even raise you). Those who advocate checking are correct but probably play at higher levels with more highly evolved fishes.

[AtticusFinch]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with the check. I make a very small bet at the pot(maybe 50 or so). The trick is to severly underbet the pot, so they might try to play back at you. I've been trying this strategy lately and it's been working well, but I only play the $30s and $20s, so what do I know?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. At the lower levels this works. Min-bet and any monkey with a diamond, ace, four, five, or Draw Two will call you (maybe even raise you). Those who advocate checking are correct but probably play at higher levels with more highly evolved fishes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. This old saw rarely works at higher limits, but is quite effective at lower ones.

[microbet]

I like this line against very aggressive players, sometimes.

With this board I think you have to check. Too scary for someone who doesn't have the flush. Maybe he has one diamond and will end up betting.

[rybones]

I definately don't play the 50s so my responce is as much a question as a comment.

That said I think I would bet 1/3 to 1/2 the pot here. My reasoning is this, they should be more advanced fish!!! what do you think they called with? my guess is that at least one has an over pair and might well checkraise. Additionally you have the advantage that your bet will look like a continuation bet and may well be called.

as usual these are just my thought and I would love to hear what others think of my analysis.

rybones

[1C5]

Me? I would find a way to lose to a straight flush and be knocked out. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Pokerscott]

-Check flop.

-Smooth call bet on turn.

-Bet ~1/3 pot on turn to represent 'buying the pot' if checked to you.

-Value bet on river (MAYBE all-in on river if you think that would look weaker and more likely to generate a call).


Pokerscott

[SNOWBALL138]

A few things to consider

1. The pot is large relative to the present stack sizes. Your stack is the exception. This means that the pot is quite attractive to these players.



2. If you check and a fourth diamond comes, it will be difficult to get any action.
This takes away value from the possible value of letting them try to make a hand. The exception would be if someone happens to hold something like Kd-Js. In that case, they might put all their chips in with you if you bet the flop.


3. You raised coming in, so checking the flop looks suspicious, especially after they check to you. Am I wrong, or has no one ever seen a continuation bet before?

All in all, this isn't an easy spot to be in. You aren't gonna be able to get money outta this hand most of the time.

I would bet about t100 here. Maybe they'll try and draw. Maybe they'll checkraise with something like 9d-9h Maybe they'll call with another flush.

I just wouldn't really wanna let them see the river BEFORE they decide their hand is bad. You have to remember that the board is terrifying, and that for a lotta hands that these guys might have, the board is going to get scarier, not more attractive. The only situation where the board is going to get attractive for a player is when they fill up, or if they happen to have the king of diamonds.

I think that you really need to bet here.

Thanks for posting the hand. I think this is a good discussion.

[Scuba Chuck]

This is a $50+5. Not a lower limit hand.

The trouble with this hand for you is that you were the Preflop aggressor. There are two ways to play this hand.

1) Check. If you check here, and it's checked to you the next round, and you bet, you're done. If you check, you're hoping a broadway card hits, so that you might get some action.

2) Bet 1/4 of the pot. Especially since you're acting last. The fact that you're acting last will sometimes induce others to play. If you bet 100 chips, you're supplying 5:1 pot odds for someone to play their overpair (especially if they have a /images/graemlins/diamond.gif). IMO, this works the best if you're acting last. If you are in EP, check is the best route.

Actually, next time, bet 113 chips. The odd number might be enough to throw them off, and call. I'm not kidding.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree. At the lower levels this works. Min-bet and any monkey with a diamond, ace, four, five, or Draw Two will call you (maybe even raise you). Those who advocate checking are correct but probably play at higher levels with more highly evolved fishes.


[/ QUOTE ]

the problem i have with this is that the king isnt out there. while it is true that the fish will often try to bluff you out of this one, i think this play becomes much more successful when you have Ax instead of AK.

[SuitedSixes]

Scuba, will you hurry up and say something wrong so everyone can jump all over you and I can use my new artwork for you?

[zheka]

Thank You all.
Here what I did. Hoping somebody has dimond and will chase.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP1 (t475)
Hero (t1900)
CO (t1800)
Button (t930)
SB (t505)
BB (t2735)
UTG (t680)
UTG+1 (t975)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls t30, UTG+1 calls t30, MP1 calls t30, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t125</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, UTG calls t95, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls t95.

Flop: (t450) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t150</font>, UTG folds, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: t600

[rohjoh]

I think the only way to get paid off on this hand is to check it, and check the turn if it is checked to you. That gives your opponents two chances to improve, and by the time the river card comes, they often ignore the 3 diamonds on the flop, or figure that nobody would check a made hand twice. They also figure if you had 1 diamond you would have simibluffed the flop or turn. If it is checked a 3rd time on the river it looks like a steal attempt by you, and you will get paid off with A high, 3rd pair, or worse. I could be wrong here, but this has worked well for me at the $50 level.

[SNOWBALL138]

Why would a broadway card give these guys a hand that they would bet? I bet you that UTG has a pocket pocket eights or below.

I favor betting, and I like your idea about betting an odd number. Sometimes preflop, when the blinds are 100-200, I bet 666, or if the blinds are 10-15, I bet 69, etc.

One thing that hasn't been considered here is table image. This would be a monster flop for a player like Gus Hansen to overbet. If people think you're a bluff king, and u catch cards, its heaven on earth.

[maldini]

for a small bet to work, wouldnt you have to bet that way with some regularity? does this type of bet work at the $50s?

i never bet less than 1/2 the pot and that's typically only on the river. so i'd have to make my normal bet of 3/4 the pot. i think it all depends on your image.

heres a question/hijack: if you bet a small amount what would you expect to get played back with? a smaller flush, trips or a big flush draw? (obviously not the latter here but what if you had QdJd?) dont think you'd want to put a 1/4 pot sized bet out there then.