flopped top set

[rhinoceros]

Some of you may have noticed that I post only losing hands. Now you may be thinking "poor schmuck, he floped top set and still couldn't win."

.25/.50 blinds, I hold Ts Td UTG+1.

UTG limps, I make it $2, MP calls, UTG raises $1.50(?!?) we both call. 3 see the flop:

Th 9s 4h

pot is $11
stack sizes:
UTG 157
me 43
MP 47

I bet $10, both fold. So I did win, but I wonder. Top set is such a big hand. Should I, could I have done better? I was reluctant to make a smaller bet or a total slowplay with that flop's straight and flush possibilities.

By the way, UTG is the same guy who made a mini-raise in my previous post.

[MD_]

You did the right thing. You're never going to win much by betting small. The way to make money is by betting the way you did and hope that somebody has an overpair or big draw. The only exception is when your hand is not vulnerable and you are pretty sure that you can get them to call by betting small, but that by betting big you'd force them to fold. Also, try playing good draws similarly. Don't be afraid to bet the pot or more with a 9 card NUT draw and 2 cards to come (i.e. flush).

-MD

I don't know about betting the pot or more with a 9 card NUT draw and 2 cards to come (i.e. flush). Say you get reraised huge, are you happy? I doubt it.

[Ignatius]

You played the hand just fine. There's no way you can slowplay on a flop like this, and you should be perfectly happy to take it down (of course, you wouldn't mind action form AT, overpairs, T9 or smaller sets but chances are they would have reraised anyway, assuming that you might be semi-bluffing). I think you can even make a case for overbetting here to limit the implied odds of hands like KhQh.

cu

Ignatius

[Greg (FossilMan)]

Are you happy? No, of course not, but that's not the point.

If you only bet when you have a big hand, you'll never win a lot, because everyone will know where you're at. In big bet games, you have to do some bluffing. And when better to do it but when you're going to win 1/3 of the time even when the bluff itself fails?

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

Why is he happy to take it down?
I would love to risk those 43$ to win more with the nuts.

A big re-raise from another player would be absolutely perfect!

But, I agree that he should bet the flop and that he played it good.. Too bad u had no callers though!

You won't neccessarily win 1/3 of the time because you won't always be there til the river. Not if you're reraised and face another pot sized bet when a blank comes on the turn. Then you probably fold (unless the money is deep and you expect to get paid big when you hit the flush).
Maybe I'm quibbling but I think many players automatically bet nut flush draws (I used to).
Some book I recently read said something like be careful of raising when you would not welcome a reraise (your hand is neither so good that you welcome raise and not so bad that you can easily dump it). This hand fits the bill. I'm not saying it's never right to raise with the nut flush draw, I just think a lot of players ALWAYS raise with the nut flush draw and that I think is wrong.

(Sorry for the length of my post. I'm new to this forum and will try to be more concise in the future.)

[Chris Villalobos]

I think it's easier to play nut flush draw here *because* the money isn't deap. If our hero only had QQ and was check raised all-in, which is only overbetting the pot a little, then he would have a hard time justifying a call. Also, if he has Trips he can't push us out of the hand on the turn.

[Gio]

So the reraiser checked on that flop? Initially, I would have thought that with his check raise, he might been on a big pair. Or if he's trying to set up a ill-timed trap with that flop with a KK or AA. (Which in this case, you would be way ahead) However, he probably was on a smaller pair and missed the flop. It's the one that's behind you that would concern me. So was this player willing to call two raises with QJ or 87 or was he calling with an AK or AQ or looking to flop a set.

So your dilemma here is who do you want to try to keep in the pot and whether it's is worth the risk. On a three way situation, not in optimum position, my probable course of action would be a pot raise.

Gio

[Mark W]

I know the book you refer to about not raising or betting if you would not welcome a reraise. In the context that was written in it was referring to one being the final action (or close to it) on a round. If you desire to see the next card for cheap then do not reopen the betting. However, in this case I think his bet was good and even worth a raise or reraise if opened earlier /forums/images/icons/confused.gif
However, I am very tight aggressive and my opponents know this so I get value out of my no-brainer hands that others may not get; therefore, allowing me to be a little fast with a hand like this.