NL 1000 Huge Pot tough turn decision

[ShortySaurus]

Hero is button with K /images/graemlins/diamond.gifJ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($2526) Villain is SB ($2493.5) and my poker tracker says hes 25/10....hes loose aggressive...a previous hand where he called my raise preflop with 5 3 suited was fresh in my head.....

UTG limps, UTG+1 limps, MP limps, Hero raises 30, Villain raises 95, everyone folds and Hero Calls.

Flop
J /images/graemlins/spade.gif7 /images/graemlins/spade.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gif
Villain bets 100, Hero raises 325, Villain calls 225

Turn 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif
Villain checks, Hero bets 500, Villain raises 1000, Heros play???

[canis582]

QT is likely here if he is LAG. Or he's bluffing.

[flawless_victory]

GET OUTTA THERE. FAST. i think you shoulda probably just called the flop. you keep the pot smaller and you dont get pushed off the best hand by AQ/images/graemlins/spade.gif... maybe more importantly you dont push AA, AK off their hand. as it is, you need to fold unless he is a moron. if hes retarded enough to have AA/AK often, well, stick it in there... against the majority of players you are looking at KK/JJ 99.9% of the time.

[Kaz The Original]

Why did you call his reraise preflop?

[chuddo]

tough spot and i cannot really think of a single hand you would be ahead of after this guys play if he is at all solid. you can't really put him on over-valueing a weaker two pair with this board and his preflop and flop actions. if you have seen him get it in there with semi-weak hands on dangerous boards before, then your top two may be good, but i doubt it.

sucks the pot got so big, but i think this is a fold against anyone but the very tricky that view you as weak-tight or erratic opponents that don't think about relative value.

[brucey]

with the pot so big and given the action i would fold or push. My feeling is that he has aa or a big draw. If you have a good read on the player i would lean towards pushing.

[Wayfare]

[ QUOTE ]
with the pot so big and given the action i would fold or push. My feeling is that he has aa or a big draw. If you have a good read on the player i would lean towards pushing.

[/ QUOTE ]

And you will likely be $2k poorer as a result!

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
with the pot so big and given the action i would fold or push. My feeling is that he has aa or a big draw. If you have a good read on the player i would lean towards pushing.

[/ QUOTE ]

And you will likely be $2k poorer as a result!

[/ QUOTE ]

without defining "likely", this isn't necessarily an argument for folding.

[Voltron87]

You shouldn't be seeing a flop with KJ after a raise and a reraise.

[David]

IMHO you played poorly preflop. That said, and since this is Party Poker , and since you say you have a good read on his play.......K /images/graemlins/spade.gif 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif is a very possible holding. At least as possible as QT or a set. I still lean towards folding unless I have a really solid read on this guys play since Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif 10 /images/graemlins/spade.gif is also a very likely holding.

[ShortySaurus]

ok i was first to raise from button and i called his SB reraise....was my preflop questionable? sure but thats not what im asking--i'm asking for turn input.

secondly, how can you guys put him on Q T or a Set? There is no way he has Q T--sure he is a LAG but he wouldn't make this preflop reraise with Q T so out of position. For some reason I just couldn't put him on a set given my own two cards.

[David]

If he's like alot of Party LAG's he WILL make that raise with QT suited or K9 suited. Now there are some other hands (that you are ahead of) that could be likely, such as A /images/graemlins/heart.gif K /images/graemlins/heart.gif, K /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif, AA. In my experience with the really LAG's K /images/graemlins/spade.gif 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif and Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif 10 /images/graemlins/spade.gif are just as much preflop raising material as AK suited. Position? Most Party LAG's don't know what that is. He almost assuredly has a suited hand as they ALWAYS overvalue suited hands, so what suited hand is he playing. Only 2 even remotely make sense here even to a Party LAG. K /images/graemlins/spade.gif 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif or Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif 10 /images/graemlins/spade.gif. Which is it? /images/graemlins/confused.gif Or is it AK, KJ, or AA? I do not believe it can be AK or AA. So that leaves K /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif,K /images/graemlins/spade.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif,Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif10 /images/graemlins/spade.gif. I would lean towards Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif10 /images/graemlins/spade.gif and fold.

[ShortySaurus]

This is the first time i've seen him reraise preflop...on the other occasion where i open raised preflop, he called with 5 3 suited and we show downed and he saw my 6 4 suited. I can't put him on a hand like QT, 99, 77, It was either JJ (but who reraises with jacks in 5-10 nL?), KK, AA, AQ spades, or possibly overplayed AK

[David]

Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You previosly raised him with 6 4 suited and showed it down? And now your saying he would only play back at you with the hands you said? Now I know he would reraise you with as little as QT suited or K9 suited. JMHO!

[ShortySaurus]

no he wouldnt--why do you say that? he would call with hands like that -- not re raise out of position

[The Truth]

[ QUOTE ]
IMHO you played poorly preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

[David]

He was trying to take the pot preflop. If he was strong ie..AA,KK,JJ,AK suited, he calls preflop,ck raises the flop or reraises you, and bets out the turn. Listen..... He made his hand on the turn . Call check raises like this on the turn and you will go broke. But, hey I could be wrong in this instance. Better to have layed it down preflop and not been faced with this. I hope if you called you won.

[LuvDemNutz]

[ QUOTE ]
Hero is button with K /images/graemlins/diamond.gifJ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($2526) Villain is SB ($2493.5) and my poker tracker says hes 25/10....hes loose aggressive...a previous hand where he called my raise preflop with 5 3 suited was fresh in my head.....

UTG limps, UTG+1 limps, MP limps, Hero raises 30, Villain raises 95, everyone folds and Hero Calls.

Flop
J /images/graemlins/spade.gif7 /images/graemlins/spade.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gif
Villain bets 100, Hero raises 325, Villain calls 225

Turn 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif
Villain checks, Hero bets 500, Villain raises 1000, Heros play???

[/ QUOTE ]

Did he raise to 1000 or 1000 on top of your 500 -

Is it 500 more for you to call or 1000 for you to call?

[soah]

I played a lot of six-max under the old party structure and reraises from the blinds virtually never came from any of the hands you've listed. They come from big pairs and sometimes AK unless the player is a complete maniac.

[ShortySaurus]

min raised me

[ShortySaurus]

i think you are misinformed.....do you personally play the 1000 dollar tables sir? why do you so adamantly believe he would flat call preflop with other limpers in the pot? You are wrong--he has no position....he doesn't want other people in the pot....and he did NOT make his hand on the turn

[David]

Yes I do. Only trying to help analyze the situation. How about the results now? Try posting the actual hand history.
If you were so sure what he had then I am sure you called and won the hand right? No need for hostility. Post the actual hand history and show us all how right you are. I am not being sarcastic. Your ORIGINAL post said he ck raised you $1000 on the turn, now I see you have posted he minimum raise (to $1000). This is a BIG difference. Maybe in the future you can catch these ?mistakes? in your questions before the thread goes on so far. We only base our answers on the information YOU provide.

Either way......If you are calling early position REraises preflop with KJ I wonder if you should be playing the $1k, but hey it's your money. I hope you tear 'em up, and I do mean that. I root for all 2+2 posters.

[soah]

He used the same syntax for the turn raise as he did for the three previous raises in the hand. It's not his fault you misread it.

[David]

You are correct sir. I would love to see the actual hand history. I agree that it is not his fault that I misread it, but you gotta admit the syntax used is not what is usually said. Example; "Raised to $1000" & "Raised $1000" mean 2 completely different things. But, yes after rereading I get his meaning.

[ShortySaurus]

I pushed he called and had JJ

I felt he could have made the same play with AA, AQspades, or even AK as he has been seen to overplay top pairs. Oh well better luck next time....and yes my preflop raise was a little loose but i thought the call preflop was fine.

[ShortySaurus]

im not trying to be an ass--i just do not understand why you think someone with AA or KK would just flat call that spot--it doesn't make sense with multiple players behind him to act and no position.