Ever get crap for being an "internet" player from live players?

[Daliman]

I played a hand earlier today in a live 10-20 game at Trump, IN, after a tournament just for some fun, and hadn't been getting any hands to play with in a VERY weak/passive ABC game. I had been talking a bit with the guys next to me, and they asked me what I do for a living, and I said poker, they said where, and I said online, and a few eyes rolled, a few questions were asked, standard stuff, no biggie. I had yet to win a pot in a hour of play and only seeing 3 flops, so after looking at about 18 straight Double down hands, T8h UTG looked like a monster to me, especially since 3 were up from their chairs. Anyways, 3 see flop of T94, one heart. The BB bets out,( an ok player who tried to be kinda tricky it seemed) I raise, and we're heads up on the turn, which I was ready to check unless it was a J, 8, or 7, since he called me so fast,(I don't consider myself a great limit player, btw). Anyways, it comes 8, 2 clubs on board, and He checks it to me, I bet, and he raises me. Now, the only times I'd seen him raise before he had a set, a straight, and a flush, so I was obviously worried about QJ, T9, or any set, but I play bad, so after thinking awhile, I called. The river came out a 3, and he bet out confidently again. I really wasn't thrilled and contemplated folding, but I knew Ed Miller would be furious at me and made a crying call. He calls out "One pair" and rolls QQ and I am happy.

So as I'm raking in the pot, a guy about 65 years old or so says something to the effect of "Why the hell didn't you raise it on the turn? I can tell you're an internet player." I showed restraint (REALLY!), and replied I thought QJ or a set was a strong possibility from his previous play, and in any case I didn't figure him for as strong a pocket hand as QQ, which made the read all the more difficult for me, and what's more, I play bad.

Geezer doesn't let up. "You say you play for a living? You don't know a thing about poker, kid." Surprise, surprise, I'd had enough, (I know, I know, you're all very surprised), to which I replied, "Well, if you'd like to teach me a thing or two, we can play heads up". He made a couple more comments essentially saying that he's been playing for longer than I've been alive, yadda, yadda, you know the fogey drill, and I said "Funny, you'd think you'd have learned to play in all that time", among other things.

Now, contrary to online play, where I can get a bit abusive at times,(a failing point of my game, I know), when I play live, I am just looking to have a good time, and I never hassle anyone about anything. I talk to people at the table, say nice hand, and try to foster a happy table environment, #1, because I want to have a good time, and #2, as Caro says "A happy table is a profitable table." So he lays off me after this, and I pound him on the 4 hands we played together, where I'm fairly certain he called me down weak just to try to catch the "internet player." As I am getting ready to leave, my who was playing at the table with me says to me, "Dammit, i lost $30 this orbit, all because you wanted to play to my blinds." to which I replied, "That's ok, i made $100. Maybe if you played as well as I do you'd have WON $$$." Most of the table smiles/laughs at my obvious joke, as does my friend,(my friends and I do TONS of ball-busting), but the old guy says I need to read a book about being more humble, which of course is stupid because I had made several self-deprecating remarks that most anyone would have picked up on. I just laughed, and he said "Kid (in a VERY condescending tone), you need to learn about respect", to which I replied, " Old man,, respect is earned, and a lack of respect shown will get you no respect in return." He then jawed at me a bit more, and I just finished stacking my chips ($333 profit for 3 hours /images/graemlins/grin.gif) and said this is why I don't play live very much, my 14 month old son crabs less.

On my way home, i related the story to my friend, and he said that invariably when he says he plays on the internet, he gets the same treatment if not worse, and I've gotten similar crap from players in other instances. Now, I know some of this is just a knee-jerk macho reaction to some young kid coming in and at times beating or outplaying them, but when internet play is interjected, the respect level seems to plummet, and I get told how I don't really know very much about poker because real poker can ONLY be played face-to-face, which is, of course, crap. Does anyone else notice that if they mention they play online they catch a lot of crap?

P.S. For those of you that may rightfully question why I seem so angry all the time; I'm not, I just suffer fools badly, and I don;t really take crap from anyone, because I don;t have to. I am nice to everybody I meet, and never give anyone a problem, but I expect the same in return, which at times is not the case. I am worse about it now because I used to work retail tire sales for 13 years and had to put up with a LOT of abuse from customers, but now, I just don't have to, so I put up with a limited amount of BS. I remember back while I was still selling tires, I went to LV with a friend of mine who owns a DJ company and is fairly well off. On the return flight home, I went to my seat and found a businessman sitting there, and I inquired as to his seat #, and he gave me a dirty look. He was sitting in a 2 seat aisle side directly behind a 1 seat aisle side, and had his briefcase and paperwork out on the second, vacant seat. I rechecked my ticket and my friends ticket, and saw tat he was indeed in our seats. I said, "I'm sorry, sir, but it appears you are in my seat", and he told me he alreadt there, and I should sit in his single seat ahead of him. I said I wanted to be able to talk to my friend, and that the other seat he had his things in was my friends. He gives me yet another dirty look, then grabs his things in a huff and throws them down next to his actual seat and slams himself down in his seat. We took our seats directly behind him, and when we sat, I whispered to my friend " I wonder what's up with him?", to which my friend said in full voice, "Fu[/b}ck him, he's an as[/b]shole." I blanched a bit, positive the guy heard it, but my friend didn't care,(my friend is not a big guy, btw, and the businessman sorta was, but that's really not much the point I found out). For whatever reason, I look back at that whenever someone gives me a hard time for no reason, and while I'm not as quick about it as he is, I no longer worry about what jerks think.

P.P.S. Not positive of the OOTworthiness of this post, but it's really more about people than poker.

[istewart]

This is Bible-length.

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
...to which I replied, "Well, if you'd like to teach me a thing or two, we can play heads up".

[/ QUOTE ]

I stopped reading at this point (Maybe I'll come back tomorrow and read the whole thing). But, this may be one of the most pathetic responses ever. It's bad enough when people do this online. In a B&M, you just making yourself look like a goofus.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
This is Bible-length.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya, sorry.

tendency to ramble+wanting to cover as much of the story as possible with leaving out incriminating details= Long post.

I ain't the best with brevity, my sincere apologies

[JaBlue]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...to which I replied, "Well, if you'd like to teach me a thing or two, we can play heads up".

[/ QUOTE ]

I stopped reading at this point (Maybe I'll come back tomorrow and read the whole thing). But, this may be one of the most pathetic responses ever. It's bad enough when people do this online. In a B&M, you just making yourself look like a goofus.

[/ QUOTE ]

[PeeWeeH]

[ QUOTE ]
I had been talking a bit with the guys next to me, and they asked me what I do for a living, and I said poker, they said where, and I said online

[/ QUOTE ]

Mistake #1

[ QUOTE ]
showed restraint (REALLY!), and replied I thought QJ or a set was a strong possibility from his previous play, and in any case I didn't figure him for as strong a pocket hand as QQ, which made the read all the more difficult for me, and what's more, I play bad.


[/ QUOTE ]

Mistake #2

[ QUOTE ]
to which I replied, "Well, if you'd like to teach me a thing or two, we can play heads up".

[/ QUOTE ]

Mistake #3

[ QUOTE ]
" Old man,, respect is earned, and a lack of respect shown will get you no respect in return."

[/ QUOTE ]

Mildly funny

PeeWee

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...to which I replied, "Well, if you'd like to teach me a thing or two, we can play heads up".

[/ QUOTE ]

I stopped reading at this point (Maybe I'll come back tomorrow and read the whole thing). But, this may be one of the most pathetic responses ever. It's bad enough when people do this online. In a B&M, you just making yourself look like a goofus.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, well then what is your response to continuing abuse? He was saying I sucked, and it is not only a retort, but a probe of an actual profit opportunity. I've had someone say this to me before in a B&M and I took him up on it, and he quit playing me after 45 minutes and losing $900 in 10-20 HU. If yer saying just take it, I ain't to good at that, but I am working on my Zen.

I had responded nicely to his first two or 3 insults, but I do draw the line. I'm very interested in a better response.

[jdl22]

try here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=inet)

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I had been talking a bit with the guys next to me, and they asked me what I do for a living, and I said poker, they said where, and I said online

[/ QUOTE ]

Mistake #1

[ QUOTE ]
showed restraint (REALLY!), and replied I thought QJ or a set was a strong possibility from his previous play, and in any case I didn't figure him for as strong a pocket hand as QQ, which made the read all the more difficult for me, and what's more, I play bad.


[/ QUOTE ]

Mistake #2

[ QUOTE ]
to which I replied, "Well, if you'd like to teach me a thing or two, we can play heads up".

[/ QUOTE ]

Mistake #3

[ QUOTE ]
" Old man,, respect is earned, and a lack of respect shown will get you no respect in return."

[/ QUOTE ]

Mildly funny

PeeWee

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand how #1 is a mistake. Because I showed a thought process? The others, I'll take heat for. I knew I would when I posted this, and sincerely would like to know how others handle it.

[Fixed Your Post]

[ QUOTE ]
Not positive of the OOTworthiness of this post, but it's really more about my raging ego than poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
try here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=inet)

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds good. I will cross-post.

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
Geezer doesn't let up. "You say you play for a living? You don't know a thing about poker, kid."

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh. If you really are a pro you should understand bad players pay your salary as much as fans pay baseball players salaries. You should be glad when people say things like this to you. Bad players who don't understand are how you make your living.

I would think a pro would realize the only reason he can make a living is people don't understand short term luck involved in poker. Poker is the game you want people to think you are bad/week at. You can't beat some one consistently at billiards or chess and have them think you are lucky. But you can at poker and that's why you can make a living doing it.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not positive of the OOTworthiness of this post, but it's really more about my raging ego than poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. A whole new gimmick-account opened in my honor. What can I say, I'm touched.

Pretty funny tho.

[nothumb]

Telling them you are an internet player and play professionally just opens you up for all the other strife. They are probably not going to believe you and if they do it will hurt your action. It's a lose-lose. Discussing hand play at the table is also a lose-lose, in this case it might encourage weaker players to bluff you more, which in this type of game is just awful.

Also, seriously, wrong forum, and get on some motherfuckin qualudes or something.

NT

[[censored]]

This account has merit.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Geezer doesn't let up. "You say you play for a living? You don't know a thing about poker, kid."

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh. If you really are a pro you should understand bad players pay your salary as much as fans pay baseball players salaries. You should be glad when people say things like this to you. Bad players who don't understand are how you make your living.

I would think a pro would realize the only reason he can make a living is people don't understand short term luck involved in poker. Poker is the game you want people to think you are bad/week at. You can't beat some one consistently at billiards or chess and have them think you are lucky. But you can at poker and that's why you can make a living doing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I know all this, and I am truly working on being better about it. I guess the thing that bothered me the most is that I was talking with people at the table and joking around and everyone seemed prtty cool, and this guy just attacks me out of the blue for no reason. I caught me pretty off guard, as I usually just laugh this kinda thing off, but this guy just wouldn't let up.

Keep the slams coming though. Mebbe I'll learn to keep the zen going.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
Telling them you are an internet player and play professionally just opens you up for all the other strife. They are probably not going to believe you and if they do it will hurt your action. It's a lose-lose. Discussing hand play at the table is also a lose-lose, in this case it might encourage weaker players to bluff you more, which in this type of game is just awful.

Also, seriously, wrong forum, and get on some motherfuckin qualudes or something.

NT

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually find I get more action on my hands,(which is good for my style), if I mention i play online. As far as discussing hands at the table, yeah, I know, but I was only going to play for 3 hours here and never again, so I wasn't too concerned. I'm pretty much a go-with-the flow guy, and he asked me a BS question, and I tried to be nice and answer him. Otherwise, I'm aware of strategy changes to make once I have shown I know a thing or 2.

Taking strattera now, btw /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ismisus]

nice story. im young, and this one geezer criticized me for drawing to an inside straight. I just told him, I know what cards are coming!

p.s I had odds to draw for the inside straight with gazillion people in a typical loose california 8/16 game.

[Shajen]

Next time, tell them you are a janitor at a high school.

[Bluffoon]

[ QUOTE ]
Next time, tell them you are a janitor at a high school.

[/ QUOTE ]

I always say "as little as possible" That sidesteps the issue and gets a few smiles.

Seriously though Dali it sounds as if you know that you should just let this stuff roll off you. Keep working at it.

[J.A.Sucker]

Most "internet players" suck at poker. They give way too much action, and while this may be OK-ish in online games it's terrible in live games. I'm not really sure why the skills don't transfer over very well, but it's true, in my experience. The opposite is likely somewhat true, as well. I don't play internet poker nearly as well as I do live, which is strange since I don't consider myself a "feel" player at all. However, there are certain situations that I just "see" when playing live that are impossible to see on the internet game.

Oh yeah, and asking that guy to play headsup was lame.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
Next time, tell them you are a janitor at a high school.

[/ QUOTE ]

"I am the eyes and ears of this institution"

P.S. Daryn will not get this. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
Most "internet players" suck at poker. They give way too much action, and while this may be OK-ish in online games it's terrible in live games. I'm not really sure why the skills don't transfer over very well, but it's true, in my experience. The opposite is likely somewhat true, as well. I don't play internet poker nearly as well as I do live, which is strange since I don't consider myself a "feel" player at all. However, there are certain situations that I just "see" when playing live that are impossible to see on the internet game.

Oh yeah, and asking that guy to play headsup was lame.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wel, that's two people saying me saying he could play me headsup was lame, but as I said before, in past experience, it has been specifically +EV.

Still waiting to hear your retorts though. I find it hard to believe most would just put up with the abuse.

Edit: I think some of you may be equating this to "You wanna take it outside?" which I think is an asnine comment in almost every case, and If you are, I disagree. A fight to "solve" the argument proves/solves/accomplishes nothing, but the challenge CAN do so. Not that being a good poker player means you have to be good HU, but I feel I have lots more experince HU than most B&M players, and this guy happened to be very predictable in his play. If a guy seemed pretty good and was giving me crap, I wouldn't say this. Also, ACCEPTING such challenges online has made me thousands too.

[turnipmonster]

[ QUOTE ]
Most "internet players" suck at poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

this may be the most correct thing anyone has ever posted here.

[jagoff]

Is there a cliff notes version online somewhere?

[Zoltri]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Most "internet players" suck at poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

this may be the most correct thing anyone has ever posted here.

[/ QUOTE ]

[M2d]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, ACCEPTING such challenges online has made me thousands too.

[/ QUOTE ]

which is why it's a somewhat valid retort online. B&M's don't have limitless cyber tables and electronic dealers ready to deal to any two players who want to pay a rake, so it's empty posturing in live games.

So, is your penis bigger than the geezer's?

[Schneids]

I've gotten it before but it's always been in jest and from people I know decently well at Canterbury and have played a lot against.

One time in particular was when I semibluffed a young kid on the turn with a flush draw I picked up then rivered the flush against his flopped two pair and so he made the comment about how "i should have expected that out of you over-aggressive internet poker player types." (and for the record as a live player I play substantially less loose-aggressive, worm33 can easily verify this that I am considered a rock at Canterbury /images/graemlins/grin.gif)

[Ryno]

"I'm very interested in a better response."

"Why the hell didn't you raise it on the turn? I can tell you're an internet player." I showed restraint (REALLY!), [ looked down at my chips, said nothing, and got mentally prepared for the next hand. ]

[AncientPC]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand how #1 is a mistake. Because I showed a thought process? The others, I'll take heat for. I knew I would when I posted this, and sincerely would like to know how others handle it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just play dumb. You're not there to prove them how good you are at poker, you're there to take their money. If you succeed in convincing them you're a poker player, then you're hurting your profits.

[jakethebake]

Internet poker is rigged.

[GimmickAccount]

I'll be the judge of this, and no, actually he doesn't. Close, but no. No.

Tepidly,
Gimmick Account

[Beerfund]

[ QUOTE ]
Keep the slams coming though. Mebbe I'll learn to keep the zen going.


[/ QUOTE ]

You're a pathetic excuse for human cells.

[Phoenix1010]

The 10/20 at Trump is a joke... If old guy was any good he wouldn't have cared about chasing you down and would instead be focusing on the 5+ fish who were probably at the table. Next time you're there try out the 2/5 NL, it's even more of a money tree. Next time someone gives you crap about playing on the internet just tell them to look out for your "internet fingers." Then tap your fingers madly on every hand.

-Phoenix

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Just play dumb. You're not there to prove them how good you are at poker, you're there to take their money. If you succeed in convincing them you're a poker player, then you're hurting your profits.

[/ QUOTE ]


When someone asks me how I could possibly stay in with a hand like that (either live or internet) I will say something like "I thought he might only have a pair of 5s" or "I just had a feeling" or "the voices in my head told me to call"


I do NOT say "well...I still thought there was a 10% chance that my hand was good due to the combined chances of him just having overcards OR a busted draw....and I was getting the appropriate pot-odds to call-down in such a situation."



One time the player to my left whispered to me "I folded a king-high flush-draw there. Do you think I did the right thing?" and I replied "depends if you thought another diamond was coming or not. And then if you thought someone had the ace of diamonds. It's tricky."



Making as little sense as possible in your at-the-table hand-analysis is +EV.

[Ulysses]

FWIW, based on my experience, few people who get worked up this easily ever get very good at poker.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, based on my experience, few people who get worked up this easily ever get very good at poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably true. But I could make a solid case for being one of the few.


About time you commented on this thread. Was waiting for you to slam me on it for awhile now.

[Ulysses]

Whatever, no big deal man. You just seem to get really worked up really easily.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
Whatever, no big deal man. You just seem to get really worked up really easily.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yer absolutely right. I used to take a lot of crap for being very small when I was a kid (i was 4'8" and 85 lbs midway through junior year in HS), and I guess a lot is still carryover from that. I just hate it when people cut other people down just to make themselves look/feel better.

[PeeWeeH]

[ QUOTE ]
I just hate it when people cut other people down just to make themselves look/feel better.

[/ QUOTE ]

And yet, you provide the lob that facilitates the slam-dunk execution of said offense on a daily basis... funny...

PeeWee

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just hate it when people cut other people down just to make themselves look/feel better.

[/ QUOTE ]

And yet, you provide the lob that facilitates the slam-dunk execution of said offense on a daily basis... funny...

PeeWee

[/ QUOTE ]
Ok....

[lighterjobs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...to which I replied, "Well, if you'd like to teach me a thing or two, we can play heads up".

[/ QUOTE ]

I stopped reading at this point (Maybe I'll come back tomorrow and read the whole thing). But, this may be one of the most pathetic responses ever. It's bad enough when people do this online. In a B&M, you just making yourself look like a goofus.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, well then what is your response to continuing abuse? He was saying I sucked, and it is not only a retort, but a probe of an actual profit opportunity. I've had someone say this to me before in a B&M and I took him up on it, and he quit playing me after 45 minutes and losing $900 in 10-20 HU. If yer saying just take it, I ain't to good at that, but I am working on my Zen.

I had responded nicely to his first two or 3 insults, but I do draw the line. I'm very interested in a better response.

[/ QUOTE ]

telling the guy you will play him heads up is about the lamest thing you can say. if i was at the table when you said that i would have reached over and slapped you.

[lighterjobs]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, seriously, wrong forum, and get on some motherfuckin qualudes or something.


[/ QUOTE ]

you might get some better responses if you posted this here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=cardroom) or here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=inet). you're only setting yourself up to get flamed by posting this in OOT.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...to which I replied, "Well, if you'd like to teach me a thing or two, we can play heads up".

[/ QUOTE ]

I stopped reading at this point (Maybe I'll come back tomorrow and read the whole thing). But, this may be one of the most pathetic responses ever. It's bad enough when people do this online. In a B&M, you just making yourself look like a goofus.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, well then what is your response to continuing abuse? He was saying I sucked, and it is not only a retort, but a probe of an actual profit opportunity. I've had someone say this to me before in a B&M and I took him up on it, and he quit playing me after 45 minutes and losing $900 in 10-20 HU. If yer saying just take it, I ain't to good at that, but I am working on my Zen.

I had responded nicely to his first two or 3 insults, but I do draw the line. I'm very interested in a better response.

[/ QUOTE ]

telling the guy you will play him heads up is about the lamest thing you can say. if i was at the table when you said that i would have reached over and slapped you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, no, you wouldn't have.

And saying my response is lame is fine, but then saying you would resort to violence in response is WAY lamer.

[lighterjobs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...to which I replied, "Well, if you'd like to teach me a thing or two, we can play heads up".

[/ QUOTE ]

I stopped reading at this point (Maybe I'll come back tomorrow and read the whole thing). But, this may be one of the most pathetic responses ever. It's bad enough when people do this online. In a B&M, you just making yourself look like a goofus.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, well then what is your response to continuing abuse? He was saying I sucked, and it is not only a retort, but a probe of an actual profit opportunity. I've had someone say this to me before in a B&M and I took him up on it, and he quit playing me after 45 minutes and losing $900 in 10-20 HU. If yer saying just take it, I ain't to good at that, but I am working on my Zen.

I had responded nicely to his first two or 3 insults, but I do draw the line. I'm very interested in a better response.

[/ QUOTE ]

telling the guy you will play him heads up is about the lamest thing you can say. if i was at the table when you said that i would have reached over and slapped you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, no, you wouldn't have.

And saying my response is lame is fine, but then saying you would resort to violence in response is WAY lamer.

[/ QUOTE ]

you would think "internet players" would have a good sense of "online sarcasm". sorry if i offended you.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
you would think "internet players" would have a good sense of "online sarcasm". sorry if i offended you.


[/ QUOTE ]

NP, considering the other people who said how lame it was that i said this,( which I still disagree with), it didn;t seem outside the realm someone might go the next step.

We coo.

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
Me saying he could play me headsup ...I think some of you may be equating this to "You wanna take it outside?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is precisely what it amounts to. Both online and B&M.

[pheasant tail (no 18)]

Lighten up Clarence. You are way too intense.

[FrankLu99]

I never play live. well, maybe twice a year for an hour or so.

[pshreck]

[ QUOTE ]
I never play live. well, maybe twice a year for an hour or so.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for bumping an old post to tell us this.

[stabn]

Cyrus bumped it.