Should I have trapped here?

[TexTiger]

What should be my play here? Villian is very LAG, and I have a relatively tight image, but have stolen a few blinds, and been caught once.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

CO (t11490)
Button (t21496)
SB (t6685)
BB (t5075)
UTG (t6280)
UTG+1 (Villian)/ (t16899)
Hero (t12000)
MP2 (t4320)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 :#A500AF(Villian)/ raises to t300</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t900</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, UTG+1 :#A500AF(Villian)/ calls t600.

Flop: (t2025) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>



TT

[AnyTwoCanLose]

I'd put a nice sized chunk of money in the pot right away... consider folding if you get played back at (but consider his LAG style).

Going slow just gives him a chance to pick up something that beats you. That's a mighty dangerous flop. You have a mighty good hand, though.

Check-raising might be good... but don't dawdle. Get the money in the middle now that you are a favorite.

Keep in mind if you check raise you get either 0 or 2 bets off of him. If you bet and he calls or raises you can three bet and get 3.

If you are sure he'll bet... MAYBE checkraise.

Still... if he might raise your bet then betting is better.

[CardSharpCook]

First, you are willing to put all your chips in the middle here, come what may, you are not folding this hand. You have top pair, nut flush draw and a nut gut shot. Should you be losing at the moment, you have 12 outs to a winner.

Challenger is a LAG. He very well may hate this flop. He may have 77. But he will likely bet if you let him. I check to him. If he bets, I pretend like I'm thinking real hard, and I call. Turn comes - doesn't matter what it is. Check again, he bets. You think, you think, you raise. Triple his bet or more. The idea being, the worst thing in the world would be for him to check behind you on the river, so you might as well bet hoping to get him to pay for the hope of that next card. His action here determines what you do on the river. If he calls and the river is no help to you, check/call. If it does help you, bet it out.

Let's say he checks behind you on the flop. Lead out on the turn, but make it a small bet - one that invites a raise. The "act meek when you have a hand" theory actually works against LAGs.

Long story short, yes you trap here. On the flop there is a 45% chance that you will have the nuts when the cards are out. As it stands, you have TPTK. Go into chip extraction mode.

CSC

[sdplayerb]

Why would you possibly fold? Even if behind you have the nut flush draw and gutshot straight. With the amount of money in the pot then, you more than have the odds to call.

And what is this about 3bet? This is NL, there is no # of bets to get off somebody here.
And if this was limit, that makes it even mroe ridiculous to possibly fold on the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
I'd put a nice sized chunk of money in the pot right away... consider folding if you get played back at (but consider his LAG style).

[/ QUOTE ]

[sdplayerb]

i'd have to disagree.
If he checks, I am checking also.
Just about any high card that doesn't give you a straight, a flush or is a K is a major scare card as it could give him trips or a straight (an A).


I bet around 2/3-3/4s of the pot and hope he calls.
I'm not giving him a free shot to hit his outs as it will be very difficult to get away from a hand here.

[CardSharpCook]

OK, so an ace (3), a Q (3) or a T(3) MAY turn this winner into a loser. But, 6 of these scary cards only look scary AND the one that hits, he is less likely to have (though 3 Qs look scary only 2 of them are still in the deck if he has one). This is poker, your opponent is always gonna have outs (unless he has no outs), you just gotta make him pay more than he should to see them. In this case, making him pay involves letting him bet. I would feel very foolish if I bet this out and he folded - 45% chance I have the nuts and I can't get another dime out of him? I don't think so.

This board may be scary.... but all the scary parts are in your hand (nut flush, nut str8, TPTK). If he has KK,QQ,TT, God bless that man, and pay him off. Also, if he has one of these holdings, he may well put you in on the flop, which is an easy call with a 45% draw to the nuts.

CSC

[sdplayerb]

i may change my mind if i was first to act, but that is not the case. he checked, and now it is your decision.
if you check behind, you are not going to make much out of him if a flush hits..very few hands he can have for the second nuts.
you also forgot outs that give him three of a kind if he has a small pocket pair making him done with the hand.

it is fine if he puts me in on the flop, two pair is more likely than KK or QQ for a flopped set. And I don't really think he is slowplaying those with this scary board any way.

I don't see many cards that when they hit me i get paid off, so i want to make him pay to play.
I would consider a check raise if acting first, but that is not the case.

[CardSharpCook]

Forgive me, I got the positioning all wrong. And actually, we don't know what the first action was - I'd like to know that, Tiger - what was his action on the flop?

Yes, I bet out the flop, but I make it a very callable bet. There is 2K in the pot... I like 500. Show timidity. If he doesn't bite (just calls) Bet the turn for more. But I agree with you SD, we are not letting him draw for free. Note on outs: if he is losing he has at most 5 outs. And some of those outs may be covered by your draws. I really do love to let my opponents pay for 5 out draws.

CSC

[2005]

There is no folding this hand.

Gavin

[2005]

I personally want all my chips in the middle on this flop if I can. If Villain obliges I am more than willing to have them all in there and if it was a cash game I'd be trying to get them to change the rules to let me put more money on the table. If I go broke, ok, NBD, move on, I've busted out of alot of tournaments, just add this one to the long list.

Gavin

[TexTiger]

I intentionally didn't list the action as I wanted to see what everyone's suggestions were. V was first to act and lead out T600 on the flop. What should my play be now? Smooth call? Mini-raise? Push? Re-raise to T2400? T3600?

[ QUOTE ]
That's a mighty dangerous flop. You have a mighty good hand, though.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hero flopped TPTK with a nut flush draw. What are you talking about?

[ QUOTE ]


Check-raising might be good...

[/ QUOTE ]

Villain is UTG+1, Hero is MP1. How can hero check-raise?

Any, I don't want to sound mean. But please, please, get your facts together. This boards are already cluttered with senseless posts as it is.

[Rick Diesel]

[ QUOTE ]
Keep in mind if you check raise you get either 0 or 2 bets off of him. If you bet and he calls or raises you can three bet and get 3.

If you are sure he'll bet... MAYBE checkraise.

Still... if he might raise your bet then betting is better.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a NO-LIMIT tournament. You would think you would read the original post before replying.

[sdplayerb]

you really should have given us his action as it sounded like he checked.
He bets 600, I make it around 3K, maybe 4K.
I am fine with any of his actions from there.

[suited_ace]

[ QUOTE ]
Going slow just gives him a chance to pick up something that beats you. That's a mighty dangerous flop. You have a mighty good hand, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you mad? Let's say our villain is holding A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, which would be the nuts on the flop. Our hero is still a 88% favorite to win the hand. This is the perfect hand to trap.

[suited_ace]

I call his bet. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the worst thing you could be against would be trip kings. His PF action doesn't match someone with pocket cowboys (or queens, for that matter), so I'm telling my self MHIVG right now. Stall for a while, call, and if he bets the turn, call again. Save the aggression for the river.

[Bernas]

Did I misread this? I know you couldn't have possibly told him to fold this hand, or even consider it.

[Bernas]

[ QUOTE ]
I call his bet. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the worst thing you could be against would be trip kings. His PF action doesn't match someone with pocket cowboys (or queens, for that matter), so I'm telling my self MHIVG right now. Stall for a while, call, and if he bets the turn, call again. Save the aggression for the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you save the aggression for the river, you might get nothing out of him. If you are aggressive on the flop or the turn, he still has cards to come so he might call.

[crookedhat99]

[ QUOTE ]
if it was a cash game I'd be trying to get them to change the rules to let me put more money on the table.

[/ QUOTE ]
lol

[TexTiger]

Actually I think the worst thing I could be up against after the flop would be AJ giving him the straight. Regardless of what he has, I'm not going to fold this hand with 8 outs for the nut flush, 2 more for the nut straight, and 1 for the royal. He's not showing AA, KK or QQ as his early play would have indicated a larger PF bet, or push to my reraise.

[CardSharpCook]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually I think the worst thing I could be up against after the flop would be AJ giving him the straight. Regardless of what he has, I'm not going to fold this hand with 8 outs for the nut flush, 2 more for the nut straight, and 1 for the royal. He's not showing AA, KK or QQ as his early play would have indicated a larger PF bet, or push to my reraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

NONE OF YOU CAN PROPERLY IDENTIFY THE NUTS!!!! The worst thing you could be up against is J9h. If he has this, you are drawing DEAD. Also, you have 9 for the flush, three for the str8.

Given his action, I see two plays: raise now - 1800 seems like a nice number, or call this and raise the turn. The Problem with just calling is that it looks like a slowplay. If you just call and he has a low PP, I think he is done with this hand. Actually, if he has a low PP, you have already extracted all the chips he is going to give. So we are now hoping that he has a pair and a heart. I raise here. He may get scared and go all-in, he may get scared and fold, he may get nervous and call, hoping to catch one of his five out. Whatever. Raise here - I like 1800, bet the turn, I like 2500. If you haven't improved by the river, check it down.

CSC

[TexTiger]

[ QUOTE ]

NONE OF YOU CAN PROPERLY IDENTIFY THE NUTS!!!! The worst thing you could be up against is J9h. If he has this, you are drawing DEAD. Also, you have 9 for the flush, three for the str8.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoops, forgot the possibility of him holding J9h, and just mistyped the 3 outs for the nut straight. That's what I get for trying to post, eat, talk on the phone, and work at the same time.

[ QUOTE ]
Given his action, I see two plays: raise now - 1800 seems like a nice number, or call this and raise the turn. The Problem with just calling is that it looks like a slowplay. If you just call and he has a low PP, I think he is done with this hand. Actually, if he has a low PP, you have already extracted all the chips he is going to give. So we are now hoping that he has a pair and a heart. I raise here. He may get scared and go all-in, he may get scared and fold, he may get nervous and call, hoping to catch one of his five out. Whatever. Raise here - I like 1800, bet the turn, I like 2500. If you haven't improved by the river, check it down.


[/ QUOTE ]

This was pretty much my line of thinking as well. I ended up making a raise to T2400, totally expecting him to push as he had done multiple times to a reraise, even without the best hand, or at least call and see the turn. He thought about it for a while, then folded, much to my surprise, hence the reason for the post.

TT

[suited_ace]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually I think the worst thing I could be up against after the flop would be AJ giving him the straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ooops. My mistake. So much for criticizing others for not paying attention...

[suited_ace]

My god, I'm brain dead today. I'll go do my laundry and try my best not to mix the colors with the whites... See you all tomorrow.