A few postflop play hands [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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Scuba Chuck

03-11-2005, 02:10 AM

I don't know about you, but I'm tired of the Faucho Gish dirty laundry. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif (Yes, I saw that SS).

Anyway, I'm ready for some more blasting. These are all from Party $50+5 (I think).

Hand 1
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t665)
UTG (t870)
UTG+1 (t1090)
MP1 (t1500)
MP2 (t705)
MP3 (t365)
CO (t1555)
Button (t775)
SB (t475)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls t30, 1 fold, MP1 calls t30, 4 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t120) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
 Well, this situation seems familiar to me. I've got TP3K. I need to make a probe bet (is that right?), but more than 30 chips this time. 3/4 pot seems appropriate here, there's a chance I might put more chips into this darn pot.

SB checks, Hero bets t90, UTG calls t90, MP1 folds, SB folds.

Turn: (t300) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
 Well, do I fire another round here? Can't be less than 1/2 pot, IMO. 
Hero bets t150, UTG calls t150.

River: (t600) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
 Damn, I think I've lost this darn hand... 
Hero checks, UTG checks.

Final Pot: t600

Hand 2
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+1 (t620)
MP1 (t1760)
MP2 (t650)
Hero (t770)
Button (t1255)
SB (t880)
BB (t1290)
UTG (t775)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t15, 2 folds, Hero raises to t45, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls t30.
 I know, I know, fold this hand, but I love the pain. 

Flop: (t115) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
 could this god darn thing be any worse for me here? 
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (t115) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Two checks, this has got to be a sign right? Weakness? Hell, even if he has an Ace, a ten wins this hand. 
Hero bets t125, UTG+1 folds. Who's the man? 

Final Pot: t240

Hand 3
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP1 (t2330)
MP2 (t755)
CO (t915)
Hero (t925)
SB (t2340)
BB (t1320)
UTG (t1415)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
4 folds, Hero raises to t60, 1 fold, BB calls t30.
 I know, I know, raise more preflop. I'm a glutton for punishment. 

Flop: (t135) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
 Damn, can this be any worse a flop for my hand? 
(2 players)
BB bets t55, This bet screams weakness. 
Hero raises to t150, BB folds.
 Man, is it really this easy? 

Final Pot: t340

Hand 4

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP3 (t970)
CO (t975)
Hero (t975)
SB (t955)
BB (t2015)
UTG (t1000)
UTG+1 (t905)
MP1 (t1000)
MP2 (t1205)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
5 folds, CO raises to t40, Hero calls t40, 2 folds.

Flop: (t105) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
CO bets t40, 40, that's crap. That's not even half the pot. This guy is weak. I raise. 
Hero raises to t125,
CO folds. Irie, is it really this easy? Man, how many chips have I lost in the past... This is sooo easy. 

Final Pot: t270

Hand 5
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t715)
BB (t455)
UTG (t700)
UTG+1 (t2315)
MP1 (t2625)
MP2 (t70)
CO (t345)
Hero (t775)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, MP1 calls t15, 2 folds, Hero calls t15, SB completes, BB checks.
 If I'm going to play this, should I raise here? I like this hand on the button.

Flop: (t60) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 bets t15,
 So, does this look like a great spot to bet here or what? Man, this is easy. 
Hero raises to t65, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 calls t50. What? He's not supposed to do that! He showed weakness, fold MP1, fold. Darn, hope I get an Ace on the turn. 

Turn: (t190) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks. I'm not falling into this trap. This is an easy check-fold from here. 

River: (t190) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, Check again! Well, what does this tell me? I probably should bet here, but all I gots is Ace high. 
Hero checks.

Final Pot: t190

Hand 6
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t1592)
SB (t1015)
Hero (t815)
UTG (t2438)
MP (t2140)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
3 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t100) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB bets t50, Man, these weak bets are real easy to sniff out. 
Hero raises to t200, SB calls t150.
 Call! That's not supposed to happen. Damn, I guess this thing aint that easy. I'm beat, what a waste of chips. 

Turn: (t500) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: (t500) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: t500

Showdown Hands:
Hand 1: Villain - K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif
Hand 5: Villain - 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif
Hand 6: Villain - 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

citanul

03-11-2005, 02:33 AM

What, we play poker here?

Hand 1:

I'm probably guilty of blowing off more chips than I should sometimes, but I normally can't resist a value bet in situations like this. If you don't think there's value to be had, well, I mean, look at what called you on other hands... My only problem would be that my stack is pretty short, and another bet probably commits me to the put in the rest, and I don't particularly want to push in here. With that in light, I'm ok with the line. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I just am not particularly happy with the thouht process of "oh man, I lose"

Hand 2:

I don't know what you're doing preflop. What on earth would you have to be smoking to want to fold? I'm really just not ok with the whole small raise? Limp, raise, do whatever you want, the hand's usually going to play pretty straightforwardly once you choose a path preflop, but this weak preflop raise with small blinds is just nutty. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I hope you wouldn't fold 22 either... I like the post flop play in terms of the actions, but I think your turn bet is too large.

Hand 3:

I like it. You're folding for a reraise, right?

Hand 4:

I dunno, am I too tight? I usually fold preflop here... But once you got yourself here, this raise is pretty good on the flop, I like it and the size.

Hand 5:

This one I don't like so much. It's a nothing pot, with a large field, Just leave it be. I'd probably even just fold for 15 chips on the flop. It's not like you have a draw or anything... Mostly it's the large field and nothing pot that disturbs me here. I know it's fun to like, actually play poker post flop, but this reeks of getting slightly carried away.

Hand 6:

Eh, the bet on the flop by villain is 1/2 the pot. Not so weak, not so strong. I like the raise here with 2nd pair heads up, even though the pot isn't much. I guess this has to be a bit opponent specific, but most hands that have a K that he's playing here, many opponents would raise preflop, so your J is usually good. once you're called, I do like the philosphy of "ok, I'm done with this hand, I committed enough resources, if I get to a free/cheap showdown, that's chill, but really, he called a good sized raise on the flop, I gots to respect that.

Results:

Ooh, there's results? Serious, I didn't look at them, still haven't. Meh. Perhaps I'm just lazy.

citanul

Bigwig

03-11-2005, 04:04 AM

Hand 1--You say you 'think' you lost this hand. I think that you won it. In fact, I bet again on the river. Results? Oh, I just checked. You lost. Sorry.

Hand 2--There's no reason to fold this hand preflop, but there's even less reason to raise it to 45. Sup bro? I'd bet the flop after raising preflop.

Hand 3--Yeah, raise more preflop.

Hand 4--KQ sucks in raised pots, even with position. The raise was pathetic though, and it's early, so no big deal calling it, however. I dunno about getting all fancy here. Who you playing against, retards? They're throwing their hands away faster than Paris Hilton handing out her a**.

Hand 5--You don't HAVE to raise it preflop. But, raising AQo here makes a hell of a lot more sense than your earlier raise with 88. I don't mind the play on the flop, but definitely shut it down after the call. I might have just called the 15 to see if I can take it down later.

Hand 6--Often I'll just call with 2nd pair on this flop. However, you missed a value bet on the river. It was checked to you again, you really think you're beat?

curtains

03-11-2005, 04:06 AM

Yo post some of these one at a time. Theres no way I can do 7 all at once!

Irieguy

03-11-2005, 04:11 AM

You posted 6 hands.

You bet the turn twice, and never bet the river.

If an expert post-flop player posted 6 hands in which the flop was seen and the hero had 20+ big blinds in his stack... how many times do you think there would be some play on the turn and river?

I guess before this forum can turn into a post flop play forum, it will have to go through a brief flop play phase.

Irieguy

Scuba Chuck

03-11-2005, 11:48 AM

Curtains, if you read through the post, you'll see there is some continuity, and reasoning as to why I posted the six hands all at the same time.

jeffraider

03-11-2005, 02:29 PM

Hand 1:

I probably play this one identically. I think that a river push is actually close here, because I think it's unlikely that he's calling with AK/KQ/KT, etc. Still, it's early, and I feel like I'd wuss out on the river too. What was your plan if he pushed the river?

Hand 2:

The PF action is terrible. I can't think of one good reason to raise or fold this hand here. This seems like a dream situation to get a chance at a set for 15 chips and probably bust someone postflop being that this is Party and you're still in level one. After the raise PF you've got to bet this flop, which is scary for UTG+1 too. I'd probably fire out 70 chips and then be done with the hand if I get raised or called. I hate the turn overbet. Make it 80 or so if you want him to fold so badly, but 125 smells like just what it was.

Hand 3:

YES raise more preflop! Make it 100 and get called by a ton of weak [censored] in the SB/BB that think you're on a steal. Love the raise on the flop, as long as you're ready to fold to a reraise.

Hand 4:

PF call is good, but I'd probably fold the flop here. Why fight for this pot here? You've got enough chips to do this only once or twice unsuccessfully, I'd wait for a better spot.

Hand 5:

I like the PF limp, honestly. I'll do the same thing nearly every time in level one. Level two it's about 50/50 between limping and raising, and level three it's a must raise. Why raise the flop? There's not anything in the pot worth fighting over again, and if you want to take it away from him I think here is an appropriate spot for an overbet, because that's somewhat typical of someone with a strong hand. If you had KJ or something a raise to 100 would seem possible. 50 chips is just too easy to call. Once you bluff-raise the flop, I think I'd be inclined to fire away again on the turn, but I pretty rarely find myself in this spot anyways.

Hand 6:

Just fold! He's bet half the pot, that's not a terribly weak bet and you can't go dumping a quarter of your stack here with second pair/no kicker. In ten hands or less, you're going to REALLY miss those chips.

microbet

03-11-2005, 02:47 PM

Hand 1, but more generally TP 2 or 3 kicker.

I think when you look to probably have the best hand, but aren't sure, you have to bet a little extra as soon as you can. Maybe a full pot bet on the flop?

adanthar

03-11-2005, 02:55 PM

1)Good. I'd have bet 200 on the turn if you weren't already short. As it is since QJ is a viable hand you can check/call the river for value.

2)Just limp it PF. Also just limp 22 PF. Once you got here you may as well do what you did.

3)You almost got what you deserved here /images/graemlins/tongue.gif But you're starting to sniff out flop weakness, which is a good sign.

4)Fold PF, but again, sniffing weakness is a good thing.

5)Raise PF. You want to get HU with the limper, who will almost never have a hand better than AQ. Since you called, just fold the flop - yeah, it's a minbet, but the pot is too small to care about.

6)Here we have a prime river value bet. Do you see why?

unfrgvn

03-11-2005, 03:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]

6)Here we have a prime river value bet. Do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

I need more discussion on this hand, because I would always check behind. I know the on board K makes it less likely he has one, but if I make a value bet I can't call a reraise, can I?
I think I get this spot wrong a lot because I fear the reraise.

Edit: After thinking about this some more, I'm not sure the check behind isn't the most correct play. What worse hand will call? The only benifit might a better hand might fold (J with a better kicker?). Am I wrong?

Scuba Chuck

03-11-2005, 03:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
6)Here we have a prime river value bet. Do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, here's my analysis. Since he called my flop bet, he must have something. Since he checked the turn and the river, whatever it is that he had, he must have missed or is weak. No flush draw completed. Only the top card paired. There is no straight draw. That left me to assume he had Jack weak kicker.

What is the value bet opportunity? (Does a 'river' value bet mean that you make it small enough to be called?) I might be able to deduce that a large bet here would not be called. What are you thinking?