Who caps?

[oscark]

I have about 1500 hands on the villain (22/12/1.6). I remembered him as a thinking opponent and possibly a 2+2er.

I have a feeling everyone and there mother is going to tell me to cap here, but I have all but turned my cards up on the table and he doesn't seem to care.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif. Hero posts a blind of $15.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero (poster) raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (15 SB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, MP3 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls.

Turn: (11.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, UTG calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB caps</font>, UTG calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (27.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG folds, MP1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 33.50 BB

[jgorham]

You are only behind to pocket K's or T's. K's would have most certainly 3bet preflop, and tens would have likely done so as well. It is far more likely he holds TQ, AJ, T8, or TK. Cap it sir.

[riffraff]

Sure.. I'll give him credit for TT.

[oscark]

I figured this was coming and probably deserve it. But if he is a thinking player and respects me, what does he put me on?

[riffraff]

only KK or QQ

heh.. ok ok .. maybe AA, AK.. =)

[riffraff]

Actually since you posted it would not be out of line to be "raising light" from this spot.

[highland]

So, there's a lot of information here. There are 3 hands that beat you. He can't have KK, because that's an auto 3-bet preflop. TT would usually 3-bet too, right? Does Jh9h cold call this? Possibly.

I think KT would be better off check/3-betting than check/cold-calling the flop. There are a lotta draws to beat his flopped trips, push them out or make them pay.

I think you've been 2 outed on the river. Still, I cap it, though maybe call if party allowed 5 bets on the river...

cheers,
highland

[obi---one]

who cares, its not going to affect your long term rates either way

[Kailia Marie]

Hi Oscark,

I think you missed a bet.

/images/graemlins/heart.gifKailia

[ShortBus]

I agree, cap it here. If he beats you on the river, so be it.

[URMeowed]

I think the flop raise is horrendous. River cap is mandatory.

Meow.

[Clarkmeister]

Man, I love the flop raise. Freaking beautiful.

[URMeowed]

That woman in your avatar may have squatted on you one too many times.

Meow.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
That woman in your avatar may have squatted on you one too many times.

Meow.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hard to imagine that's possible.

Man, no one is respecting that flop raise. They are almost certainly calling for 1 bet anything they'd have called for two, and any hand with a ten is now going to be dead certain you specifically *don't* have queens-full. All that subsequent action is likely as great as it is because of the flop raise.

[gamblore99]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the flop raise is horrendous. River cap is mandatory.

Meow.

[/ QUOTE ]

I say cap. As for the flop bet at first I hated it, but now I'm think the pot is already pretty juicy, and most guys with anything decent will have odds to call here. But then maybe I just think that cause clarkmeister said it was good.

[imported_stealthcow]

dont forget j /images/graemlins/heart.gif 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

/images/graemlins/grin.gif
stealthcow-

[URMeowed]

[ QUOTE ]
They are almost certainly calling for 1 bet anything they'd have called for two

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with that. However, on Party especially, they are more likely to call one bet with air then they are with two. And by air, I mean AIR. They will take one off no matter if the flop hit them or not cause the pot is so big. This also sets up raising the turn and making the legitimate draws pay two big bets to draw dead.

BTW, this is Party specific. In a live game, especially a somewhat tough game, I like the flop raise then.

[ QUOTE ]
any hand with a ten is now going to be dead certain you specifically *don't* have queens-full.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most Party players can't read their own hands...how are they gonna read yours??? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Meow.

[goofball]

no, people are calling 2bets with very suspect hands in the party 15 now too. the flop raise is perfect.

[URMeowed]

[ QUOTE ]
no, people are calling 2bets with very suspect hands in the party 15 now too

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes they are. I just like making them pay two big bets on the turn rather than two small bets on the flop.

Meow.

[Lestat]

" but I have all but turned my cards up on the table and he doesn't seem to care."

Here's your problem. Your cards are anything but face up to the average Party 15 player. Many of them are lucky to know what they have, alone what you're holding. First he might think, "queen". then he thinks, "AA". Then he thinks, "ten", and so on. I don't' care if he had you beat. He can't 5-bet, and your hand is worth at least 4.

[hogger]

How can you not cap it? If he has TT good for him. If he is a player you describe then KK is out of the question.

[goofball]

I disagree. Give a standard PP monkey the same hand I think think they are more likely to call 2bets on teh flop that misses them then 1 bet on the turn that misses them. No one folds the flop ever, the bets on the turn are twice as big, and their dreamy backdoor draws now have on hope. (i.e. 8T on a 47Q board or something)

[oscark]

I said he was not your average 15 player. I said he was a good, thinking player, maybe a 2+2er. Against an average player, there would have been no post.

[URMeowed]

What I meant to say is I'd rather make the draws pay two big bets than make the donks pay two small bets to chase.

Meow.

[URMeowed]

Even if he was a good, thinking player, there is no way he can 100% zero you in on QQ. Plus, he has to know without a doubt that you would not raise the river with anything less than QQ or KK.

Meow.

[Lestat]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree. Give a standard PP monkey the same hand I think think they are more likely to call 2bets on teh flop that misses them then 1 bet on the turn that misses them. No one folds the flop ever, the bets on the turn are twice as big, and their dreamy backdoor draws now have on hope. (i.e. 8T on a 47Q board or something)

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you mean this in response to me? I said nothing about the flop or turn play. I'm talking about the river. You are leaving way too much money on the table by failing to 4 bet. Queens-full will be good too many times here.

[Lestat]

Wow, I gotta get used to the format. I can't tell who I'm responding to or who is responding to me. It looked like Oscark was replying to me. Sorry.

[Lestat]

Ok, I got my bearings now. I responded to something else. Yes, you did say he was a thinking player. But queens-full is still worth a 3rd bet on the river. I can't believe we're even debating this.

[goofball]

no problem, and i agree 100%. River cap is mandatory

[Jules22]

[ QUOTE ]
What I meant to say is I'd rather make the draws pay two big bets than make the donks pay two small bets to chase.

Meow.

[/ QUOTE ]

what draws? to the case ten? to the overfull house?

[hogger]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What I meant to say is I'd rather make the draws pay two big bets than make the donks pay two small bets to chase.

Meow.

[/ QUOTE ]

what draws? to the case ten? to the overfull house?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just b/c they are drawing dead - doesn't mean they are not drawing /images/graemlins/smirk.gif