QQ on Ace High Flop

[Unarmed]

Stars 20+2 Blinds 25-50
I have 1000 Villain (appears solid) has me covered.
QQ UTG I raise to 150 Villain calls in MP.

Flop (375) is A92 rainbow.
I check, Villain bets 300, I push.

There's gotta be a better line.

[shoeman]

I think you need to lead out on the flop here. Throw a bet of 200 out there to see what kind of reaction you get from Villian. If he calls, than you can shut it down and check the turn. If you get raised, than you are probably way behind and can fold.

By not betting the flop you have no idea if you are way behind or if he is trying to use his position to buy the pot.

I'm not too sure about the push. I think it's a better option than calling but depending on my read of Villian, I may have to lay this one down.

[Unarmed]

I hate leading here because

1) If Villain folds I just folded out a weaker PP - not good
2) What does a typical $20 player do when they hold AK/AA and an ace flops on a bone dry board? Any bet on this flop screams "Take this pot from me please."

[shoeman]

[ QUOTE ]
I hate leading here because

1) If Villain folds I just folded out a weaker PP - not good
2) What does a typical $20 player do when they hold AK/AA and an ace flops on a bone dry board? Any bet on this flop screams "Take this pot from me please."

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't really argue too much with that line of thinking. I play 20s as well and and the problem with pushing is that so many players will call raises with all sorts of Ace hands. I don't think the average $20 SNG player will fold A10 or even A8 here. If the flop were King high than I would probably agree with the push but I'd be very reluctant to put my tournament at risk with that Ace out there.

Actually, I'm looking at that flop bet again. A bet of 300 seems like he really doesn't want a call. Hmmmmm...

Maybe I play to tight/scared?

[Phil Van Sexton]

[ QUOTE ]
1) If Villain folds I just folded out a weaker PP - not good

[/ QUOTE ]

When the pot is big in relation to my stack, I quickly lose interest in extracting more bets. I want the pot and I don't want someone bluffing me off my pot.

You can stop the bluff by betting out, or checkraising like you did. The checkraise involves putting your whole stack in play when there is a good chance he isn't bluffing.

Therefore, I'll bet 200, and if he pushes with 72o, more power to him.

[willie]

yeah, you gotta lead here headsup

2/3rds the pot and slow down if you get called, muck if raised most likely

I think that checkraising all in ont he flop is pretty bad to be honest. If he is betting his ace into you, then you're putting all your chips in drawing practically dead.

[Unarmed]

If there's a reasonable draw on board I lead here. It just seems to me that a thinking opponent would look at a lead on that board and go, "why did he feel the need to bet that?"

I definitely agree that if I'm leading, 200 is the perfect amount.

[nova]

My take is that leading at the pot may be a viable play here. He has you covered so last thing you want to get into is a situation where you are forced into a 2-outer with 2 cards to go. A bet between 50% and 100% of the pot would give a good indication of what's going on I think. I normally don't subscribe to the "bet to see where you are" because you could just be throwing money away, but this may force a fold especially with you bringing it in. Represent for the first two bets, and if he doesn't play back but simply calls, see if you can check the hand to the end (showdown) and save some money in the process. Just another opinion in the sea of poker knowledge /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
1) If Villain folds I just folded out a weaker PP - not good

[/ QUOTE ]

The pot's big enough for your top pair. I'd definitely consider your line in a cash game, but in a tournament I'll take as many chips as I can SAFELY get.

[ QUOTE ]
2) What does a typical $20 player do when they hold AK/AA and an ace flops on a bone dry board? Any bet on this flop screams "Take this pot from me please."

[/ QUOTE ]

You'd have been forced to make a decision that is correct most of the time. MAYBE you will bluffed out of a pot, but you're NOT gonna make a $20+2 player lay down a pair of aces, despite the strength your very strong check-raise represents.

[Unarmed]

Don't get me wrong, my fold equity is zero against any ace. I realize this.

[pokerlaw]

I like to lead w the consensual 200 bet here. If raised, then muck, but you don't know where you stand otherwise.

Harrington appears to take the same approach in his book. good luck.

[Travis]

[ QUOTE ]
Stars 20+2 Blinds 25-50
I have 1000 Villain (appears solid) has me covered.
QQ UTG I raise to 150 Villain calls in MP.

Flop (375) is A92 rainbow.
I check, Villain bets 300, I push.

There's gotta be a better line.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't understand what the C/R does for you here. If you are ahead, he folds. If you are behind, he calls. You force him to make the correct play. Maybe he folds a weak ace but he if called your preflop bet with Ax and then hits hit his A, then I think he calls the allin at the $20 level.

Personally I lead at the flop as others have suggested and fold to a reraise and slow down to a call.

[utmt40]

If your playing on party, fold no one lays down their Aces there.

[citanul]

Bet. Fold to a raise.

"what does the typical 20 buck player do here with AA, AK?"

uh, i dunno, but from the line from you, i'm guessing that when someone bets out, they sometimes get people to try to push them off their hand? if so, i like betting out my aa and ak too even more. personally, i don't think that people bluff raise people out of pots all that often. i also don't think that checkraising is nearly as default at the low levels as you're implying. you raised, checking i think shows that you're weak most of the time. you've got the lead in the hand, and i think if you bet, the most likely hand he's going ot put you on is some ace. like i said, i don't think people make "plays" without the ace all that often if you just bet out.

yeah, checkraising all in is all well and good when he doesn't have an ace. but really, where are you getting any inkling that he doesn't have an ace? you're basically only getting called here by hands that have you beaten, and i don't think any of those hands are folding, except MAYBE kk. personally, i odn't like giving someone a one way ticket to my chips every time they out flop me.

i think if you check the flop, and your opponent makes a real bet, you just should fold. but i don't think you should be checking that often. if you worry about people thinking that your bet outs are weak, bet out more. i think that checkraising is far, far too overused, especially at hte lower limit sngs, where people are just going to call down your nuts when you bet them. i see too many people putting themselves in awkward positions trying to get a checkraise off and getting their hand put in bad spots when it gets checked around and the turn puts something scary up.

eh, just my thoughts.

citanul

[Travis]

If you're the Matador, you check/ fold.