Need to let QQ go? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

Jim Shears

03-10-2005, 12:21 PM

I just sat down, unfortunately.

PokerRoom 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, CO calls, 1 fold, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero caps, CO calls, SB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (21 SB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB bets, UTG calls $0.20 (All-In), UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, CO calls, SB calls, UTG+1 calls.

I raised here to see where I stood with SB. Incorrect?

Turn: (14.90 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players, 1 all-in)
SB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, CO folds, SB 3-bets, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Too aggressive?

River: (23.90 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players, 1 all-in)
SB bets, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 25.90 BB

I feel lost with this hand. In hindsight this was probably overly aggressive.

einbert

03-10-2005, 12:28 PM

This is fine. I think you slowed down at just the right time.

btspider

03-10-2005, 12:31 PM

no way you are folding this. turn raise looks fine and you calldown b/c he could easily have a J.

edit: woops.. SB 3-bet PF.. i think you can just calldown when he stop-n-go's. TT seems unlikely and AJs is less likely than JJ+.

bozlax

03-10-2005, 12:39 PM

One question: IN GENERAL, do you consider it more likely that players on Party are going to 3-bet preflop with AJ/KJ/QJ/JT, or with something-3?

To protect your hand, in your position, with the likely aggressor on your right, save your raise for the river (right, Great Brains?).

I'm inclined to cap this turn, since SB didn't 3-bet the flop (the stop-n-go reinforces my thought he's holding one jack).

Unfortunately, your last line indicates that SB did flip over JJ, or A3. Try not to include references to results, as it colors the responses.

(As always, I know squadoosh about this. I'm about 2 weeks ahead of some of you on the learning curve, hoping the better players will read this and correct both of us.)

Jim Shears

03-10-2005, 12:42 PM

Yeah, that last line was needless. Point taken, and thanks for the response.

bozlax

03-10-2005, 12:43 PM

You would assume that a Party Unknown is more likely to correctly apply the stop-n-go with JJ than to get scared with a raise on a two-suited flop and come back to life when his QJs boat floats?

Maybe I'm being too aggressive again. Comes from playing a freeroll tourney last night.

dkernler

03-10-2005, 12:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
One question: IN GENERAL, do you consider it more likely that players on Party are going to 3-bet preflop with AJ/KJ/QJ/JT, or with something-3?

[/ QUOTE ]
I can't say anything about Party, but I'm expecting most 3-bets to come from AK-AQ, AA-TT. We're behind 3 on the flop, (AA, KK, JJ) but the turn bet by SB pretty much rules out AK and AQ.

I think your 'wait until the river to raise' applies more to HU situations. Here, our pot equity says we should raise - on the flop. (At least as I understand it.)

I think the way hero played it is the same way I would. In retrospect, with most hands ruled out that we're ahead of, calling down from the turn is probably better.

EDIT: Didn't think long enough on my original response!

btspider

03-10-2005, 12:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You would assume that a Party Unknown is more likely to correctly apply the stop-n-go with JJ than to get scared with a raise on a two-suited flop and come back to life when his QJs boat floats?

Maybe I'm being too aggressive again. Comes from playing a freeroll tourney last night.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm a bit undecided. the stop-n-go is a bit odd for QQ+. I had written cap the turn until i noticed that SB 3-bet PF. it looks like a J, but the PF range of an unknown is a bit troublesome for our hand. i think in the end, we may get the same # of bets in from overcalls by not getting aggro. UTG+1 calling 3 bets on the turn is a bit unexpected.

note to OP: stop the action on your turn decision next time /images/graemlins/smile.gif

@bsolute_luck

03-10-2005, 12:54 PM

i would think the aggression is fine at .25/.5 limits seeing as you just sat down. wouldn't a player at this level just as soon 3-bet AJ,KJ?

i think the hand was played fine with a slowdown on the river.