am i calculating this wrong?

[pryor15]

i find i run into this situation quite frequently where i have an inside straight draw on the flop and i have the pot odds to call the bet on the flop, but not on the turn. i'm beginning to suspect i'm doing something wrong. below is an example of what i'm talking about (although not a great one and the pre-flop call was a bit loose)

oh and the converter was being fussy, so i'll just summarize...

Pokerroom $1/$2 10-handed

Pre-flop: Hero is Big blind w/ 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif...4 folds...Baby calls...2 folds...Button raises, SB folds, Hero calls, Baby calls

Flop: T /images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif, 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Hero checks, Baby checks, Button bets, 2 calls

Turn: 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif
Hero checks, Baby bets, 2 folds


The way i see it, i was getting proper odds on the flop to call a 4-outer (yeah, i know, could have run into a bigger straight, but that's not the point), but not after the turn. am i reading this wrong?

[JoshuaD]

I'd fold this getting 8:1 on the flop.

However, if there was another limper preflop, making it 8SB to the flop, and the action was the same (giving you 10:1 or 11:1), you'd be correct to see the turn for one bet, but incorrect to see the river for one bet.

[evilganz]

I call a LOT of gutshots in these games, but this is one that I think you should give up and not worry about. Running into a bigger straight is very much the point; you really don't want to draw to the low end of it at a poorish price when the other end is a very playable hand like QJ. Remember that your goal is to get a good return from the pot on the money you put in, and losing multiple bets on later streets cuts into that sharply.

If the flop came A95 you'd be thrilled to draw--think of how much you'll get paid off by the random aces. I don't think your math is wrong, though (except that you don't have pot odds to call yet, but you do have implied odds).

[pryor15]

by not being the point, i meant simply that the hand i posted was merely an example of a situation i've been encountering frequently where the gutshot seems to have odds to call on the flop, but i've been calling realizing the odds probably wouldn't be there for the turn. that was just the first hand i saw in my history that had the situation. it just happened to be that bigger straight scenario. i've rambled a bit, but hope that makes sense.

[masonx]

this is a fold on the flop. 10.5-1 on your strait your only getting 8-1.

Even tho you said it doesnt matter you lose value because of hands like QJ etc.

-This is clear flop fold IMO unless you are 100% sure you will get a free card on the turn. And this isnt a strong enough draw to raise for a free card.

[evilganz]

HPFAP suggests calling a gutshot on the flop getting 8-1 or so, despite the real odds being 11-1. If you don't make it on the turn, well, you fold, and you don't worry about it; you still got a (very modest) edge on the money you put in on the flop. There's whole classes of hands where it's right to draw on the cheap street, but not the expensive one.

Note that this is a reason why hands like 76s play better in late position and in passive games. Sometimes it comes with a gutshot draw for you, you call the flop, and some overcard comes. Now everyone checks it to you.

[sean c]

No your not readng this wrong many times you will have correct odds to call a flop bet and not a turn bet. If you are saying I'm not going to call a flop bet because I won't have the odds to call on the turn that is incorrect thinking and you will fold to many hands on the flop that you should have peeled one off with. BTW this hand should have been folded on the flop.

[shant]

Is this a standard call preflop? I'm just curious because no one has said anything about that, but against a limper and a raiser is it right to complete here. Is it because the Button is likely stealing?

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this a standard call preflop? I'm just curious because no one has said anything about that, but against a limper and a raiser is it right to complete here. Is it because the Button is likely stealing?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, this is a pretty bad call preflop as far as I'm concerned.

Rob

[pryor15]

it isn't for me. i sort of talked myself into it on the thought he might be stealing and against all other logic i felt like seeing the flop and had a hunch i might hit a good flop. in the initial post i admit the pre-flop call is a bit loose.

[shant]

[ QUOTE ]
in the initial post i admit the pre-flop call is a bit loose.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, didn't see that on the first read.

Thanks for the response, Entity.