calling post-flop

[Guruman]

A lot of what I've learned so far is that many good TAG post-flop decisions come down to raise-or-fold. Raising to push people out, for info, and for value - folding to get the hell out while the getting's good.

I like the overall mentality that if you're not willing to raise the pot you may need to get out, but I seem to be having some issues sorting out exactly when that mindset is not appropriate post-flop.

Here are some likely call situations that I have sorted out so far - please feel free to comment/add/criticize:

1)with a strong hand and many players left to act.

Going for overcalls and bluffs can be a good line if your hand is very strong on a not-scary board with sneaky good hands like sets and two pair. This is less true the more likely that people to act behind you are willing to call a raise instead of fold to it. Obviously late position has less of an opportunity to go for this play.

2)when you're waaay ahead or waaay behind but don't know which.

Ex: button with [AKo] on a [Kh 4h 8s Ah] board. You've got top two pair, but if EP1 just raised BB's bet, you may be drawing to 4 outs and a bet here would not be a value bet. (Assume proper pot odds to draw to 4 outs)

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Any other spots where the line is very obviously not raise/fold?
/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Thanks!

[Guruman]

cmon guys, lets paint with a broader brush for a moment here. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[J.R.]

some more random ideas, not sure about the "not obviously raise or fold" aspect of thsi spots but here goes :

when you have a draw and little folding equity but not enough people/the right position to jam for value.

when you expect a raise behind you and are seeking to execute the vaunted call-re-raise.

on the flop v. a suspect bet from a weak player when you have both outs (not a hug requirement) and some scare cards you will look to riase on the turn- i.e. floating the flop

with a psuedo-suspect best hand headsup on the flop (middle pair, perhaps even TPNK) that you will look to riase on the turn becuase the flop raise has little folding equity

with a good hand now but a big pot and many draws where you look to raise a favorable turn card to deny your oppoents odds (the big pot assumes your oppoents would not be denied correct odds with a flop raise, and the many draws is indicative of the fact that you may have marginal equity in the additinal flop bets that go into the pot, but much greater equity after a favorable turn card)

[Guruman]

Thanks for the reply. This is definitely a leak in my game, and I think that it primarily comes from my relative weakness at determining whether someone will fold to a bet.

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when you have a draw and little folding equity but not enough people/the right position to jam for value.

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Again, as my ability to determine folding equity improves, I'll bet that I can use this line more effectively. I definitely don't think about it enough.

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when you expect a raise behind you and are seeking to execute the vaunted call-re-raise.



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Also a smaller leak in my game here - I've been spending too much time thinking "raise or fold" and have probably not executed the call-reraise nearly enough with good hands in large fields. It seems like this play only has a shot from middle position though.

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-on the flop v. a suspect bet from a weak player when you have both outs (not a hug requirement) and some scare cards you will look to riase on the turn- i.e. floating the flop

-with a psuedo-suspect best hand headsup on the flop (middle pair, perhaps even TPNK) that you will look to riase on the turn becuase the flop raise has little folding equity

-with a good hand now but a big pot and many draws where you look to raise a favorable turn card to deny your oppoents odds (the big pot assumes your oppoents would not be denied correct odds with a flop raise, and the many draws is indicative of the fact that you may have marginal equity in the additinal flop bets that go into the pot, but much greater equity after a favorable turn card)

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These I tend to see as a delayed version of "raise/fold" - though again I can see how they would become more effective on the turn. I tend to lean towards wanting to push weak players out of the pot early on, probably another thing that I have to unlearn a bit.

There's a very delicate balance between
a)extracting the most money from an opponent or
b)getting drawn out on
that comes with a proper post-flop call. It only takes losing one pot on a poor call that I would have won with a raise to really hurt. Because of the stakes, this is easily one of the more difficult concepts for me to master.

[Guruman]

[ben stein voice]anyone? ... anyone? ... bueller? [/ben stein voice]