Hole in my Game : Low/Mid Pairs when a pair flops -- what to do? [Archive]

Chu

03-09-2005, 06:18 PM

Just finished 7th in a $22 MTT on stars. There were two hands in it that really bothered me, and both involved mid/low pairs when an underpair pair flops. After thinking about how I play these I have a fealing they are a HUGE hole in my game. Please tell me how you'd handle these two cases.

Be warned though, after really thinking about them I am almost embarresed to share them since they are both played so horribly /images/graemlins/blush.gif

This hand occured a bit after the bubble, and I don't have good reads. The villian was moved to this table.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t2000 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t20765)
SB (t14739)
Hero (t28496)
UTG (t10585)
MP1 (t14163)
MP2 (t39055)
CO (t28897)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, MP2 calls t2000, 3 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (t4600) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets t4000, MP2 calls t4000.

Turn: (t12600) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets t4000, MP2 calls t4000.

River: (t20600) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t4000, Hero calls t4000.

Final Pot: t28600

Results in white below: 
Hero has 3d 3s (two pair, threes and twos).
MP2 has Jh Qc (two pair, jacks and twos).
Outcome: MP2 wins t28600. 

This hand occured at the final table. Everyone except the guy who busted me thinks I'm a super-agressive player since I just stole my way from 25K or so to where I was at the start of this hand.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t6000 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t96123)
SB (t39084)
Hero (t75650)
UTG (t72352)
MP1 (t93410)
MP2 (t240843)
CO (t146038)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif.
2 folds, MP2 raises to t18000, CO calls t18000, 2 folds, Hero calls t12000.

Flop: (t49800) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero bets t24000, MP2 calls t24000, CO folds.

Turn: (t97800) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets t12000, MP2 raises to t36000, Hero calls t21350 (All-In).

River: (t167150) J/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t167150

Results in white below: 
Hero has 9d 9c (two pair, jacks and nines).
MP2 has Ks 3d (full house, threes full of jacks).
Outcome: MP2 wins t167150. 

Anyways, with two excellent examples on how NOT to play these, I am wondering, what do you usually do with your pair if another pair flops?

adanthar

03-09-2005, 06:35 PM

In Hand 1, I bet 3K on the flop and shut down when called.

In Hand 2, I check dark [because of the cold caller and the fact that I don't have enough of a stack to bet big] and the J33 flop doesn't change that in the least, but if I bet for whatever reason, I push.

(edited for stack size)

Roman

03-09-2005, 06:37 PM

I think you butchered both hands....

Hand one: I would bet 2-3k on the flop, and slow down on the turn. Turn bet is awfull, if he called 4k on flop, what you think is gonna happen on turn? The bet gets no info and doesnt fold out any hands. On the river his bet is really small, but a flush draw just missed so I might call getting 6:1.

Hand 2: I push pf.

Roman

03-09-2005, 06:39 PM

btw, you generally do not want to see flops with mid/low pairs with more than 1 other person in the pot unless you have the implied odds. 99 plays pretty bad 3+ way.

wAzZu24

03-09-2005, 06:40 PM

Hand 1: A big river bet may push him off his hand.

Hand 2: I probably reraise this all-in preflop, the 2 big stacks may be playing pretty loose and you can pick up a nice pot right here.

mshalen

03-09-2005, 07:24 PM

My question on both hands: After the flop bets were called did you stop and try and determine what hands your opponent would call with?

It seems you were just playing your cards and not an opponent.