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View Full Version : Hand where I raised and did not fold to the cap...

TimM
03-09-2005, 03:38 PM
I thought for a while about the PF call. SB is 2+2'er cnfuzzd, BB is 15.4/12.5 after 100 hands.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB caps</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, BB folds, Hero calls.

I liked the flop, and the fact that BB folded, but now I think I just have to call down and hope that either my hand is good, or if not, I have some outs.

Turn: (9.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.
MoDOH
03-09-2005, 03:46 PM
You can safely fold this river knowing that you saved yourself a bet...
TimM
03-09-2005, 03:51 PM
Are you 92% sure of that?

Edit: I don't know if it means anything, but he knew who I was, and I knew that he knew, etc., etc.
JoshuaD
03-09-2005, 04:17 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Are you 92% sure of that?

Edit: I don't know if it means anything, but he knew who I was, and I knew that he knew, etc., etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

And it really looks like you're gonna call down with top pair, from his POV.
applej25
03-09-2005, 04:29 PM
I don't see him playing anything other than AA-QQ like this.
mantasm
03-09-2005, 04:32 PM
Results: cnfuzzd shows 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif (two pair)
applej25
03-09-2005, 05:18 PM
[ QUOTE ]
8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

you've got to be kidding
TimM
03-09-2005, 05:41 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

you've got to be kidding

[/ QUOTE ]

He is. But his hand was no where near AA-QQ.
sinfulslick18
03-09-2005, 06:04 PM
wow.. got scared there for a second when he said it was 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.. but not AA-QQ.. hmm... you think he was trying to mess you up the whole time..

-sinful
brettbrettr
03-09-2005, 06:08 PM
I'm less likely to give cnfzzd credit for 3-betting your pre-lfop raise, but very liklely to give him a ton of credit for check raising both of you. I can't see you hand being good here. Fold the river.
brettbrettr
03-09-2005, 06:09 PM
I just read the rest of the thread. My read of cnfzzd is not very good.
applej25
03-09-2005, 06:46 PM
[ QUOTE ]


He is. But his hand was no where near AA-QQ.



[/ QUOTE ]

Then he either:

A) Has a set.

B) Is an idiot.

C) Knows you REALLY well.

or

D) All of the above /images/graemlins/wink.gif
TimM
03-09-2005, 07:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

He is. But his hand was no where near AA-QQ.


[/ QUOTE ]
Then he either:
A) Has a set.
B) Is an idiot.
C) Knows you REALLY well.
or
D) All of the above /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

E) None of the above.

I hesitate to give the results just yet. Can someone even come close to guessing his hand?
nolanfan34
03-09-2005, 07:14 PM
I think he had AT /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, and your kicker is no g00t.
TimM
03-09-2005, 07:20 PM
NH, except it was offsuit.
applej25
03-09-2005, 07:36 PM
Well I would have to say he has little or no respect for your game if he is three betting you with A10o pre-flop AND on the flop. Especially considering you do not think he knows your game very well. And I really hope he doesn't do this consistently.
bakku
03-09-2005, 07:40 PM
[ QUOTE ]
SB is 2+2'er cnfuzzd

[/ QUOTE ]

Cap the flop. Don't fold at any point.
cnfuzzd
03-09-2005, 11:27 PM
Hey tim,, i didnt know it was you actually, i think i remember just knowing that you were a 2+2er. If i had known it was you, i wouldve waited and checkraised the turn /images/graemlins/grin.gif

peace

john nickle
Entity
03-09-2005, 11:29 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Well I would have to say he has little or no respect for your game if he is three betting you with A10o pre-flop AND on the flop. Especially considering you do not think he knows your game very well. And I really hope he doesn't do this consistently.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you fight for blinds often?

Anyway, ni han, both of you.

Rob
cnfuzzd
03-09-2005, 11:30 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see him playing anything other than AA-QQ like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

uh, no. If you arent playing tpgk this way against an attempted blind steal, you are leaving money on the table.

And 2+2ers have a wide range of hands they open raise with on the button. AT should be an automatic threebet from the SB.

peace

john nickle
cnfuzzd
03-09-2005, 11:31 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Results: cnfuzzd shows 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif (two pair)

[/ QUOTE ]

you know me too well. Time to change my screenname. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

peace

john nickle
cnfuzzd
03-09-2005, 11:32 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
SB is 2+2'er cnfuzzd

[/ QUOTE ]

Cap the flop. Don't fold at any point.

[/ QUOTE ]

and people say my reputation doesnt earn me money!!!!

peace

john nickle
CallMeIshmael
03-09-2005, 11:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Well I would have to say he has little or no respect for your game if he is three betting you with A10o pre-flop AND on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. Just wow. I think it shows a great deal of DISrespect if he ISNT 3-betting ATo here.
TimM
03-10-2005, 12:12 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Well I would have to say he has little or no respect for your game if he is three betting you with A10o pre-flop AND on the flop. Especially considering you do not think he knows your game very well. And I really hope he doesn't do this consistently.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't go that far. We have not played many hands but certainly he can infer something based on the fact that I read this board and the books published by this site. The problem is that each of us in the hand has some idea that the other two are capable of trying to steal blinds and making plays for the pot without a huge hand, as well wanting to protect that hand from overcards, when the pot is large. If he had a hand like 99, or even 77, or missed overcards especially in spades, it would not have surprized me, which is why I felt the need to call the river. The ATo I actually didn't expect as much, because I don't think I would bother trying to defend the SB with it in a 1:3 blind structure.
TimM
03-10-2005, 12:16 AM
[ QUOTE ]
If i had known it was you, i wouldve waited and checkraised the turn /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah, you had to get rid of that riff-raff who capped pre-flop. /images/graemlins/grin.gif
cnfuzzd
03-10-2005, 12:54 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well I would have to say he has little or no respect for your game if he is three betting you with A10o pre-flop AND on the flop. Especially considering you do not think he knows your game very well. And I really hope he doesn't do this consistently.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't go that far. We have not played many hands but certainly he can infer something based on the fact that I read this board and the books published by this site. The problem is that each of us in the hand has some idea that the other two are capable of trying to steal blinds and making plays for the pot without a huge hand, as well wanting to protect that hand from overcards, when the pot is large. If he had a hand like 99, or even 77, or missed overcards especially in spades, it would not have surprized me, which is why I felt the need to call the river. The ATo I actually didn't expect as much, because I don't think I would bother trying to defend the SB with it in a 1:3 blind structure.

[/ QUOTE ]

I shouldve remembered that it was you, i wont forget again. (i checked the HH, so i know who you are again.) Personally, i am 3betting AT from the SB against a steal 100% of the time against any non-rock. The 1/3 structure stops me from defending with the smaller suited hands, but i think i would be giving up to much to not resteal with it, especially since most of the hands you are stealing with im just flat out way ahead of.

Tim, you should know i have tremendous respect for your game. Even if i hadnt read so many of your posts, your choice of an avatar alone displays vast amounts of intelligence.

For what its worth, i did have BB as tight/passive post flop, and thought the checkraise was the best way to get him out of the hand. I also think you played your hand fine.

peace

john nickle
cnfuzzd
03-10-2005, 12:57 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


He is. But his hand was no where near AA-QQ.



[/ QUOTE ]

Then he either:

A) Has a set.

B) Is an idiot.

C) Knows you REALLY well.

or

D) All of the above /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

my advice to you would be never play short-handed. Also, never sit within three seats of me.

peace

john nickle
TimM
03-10-2005, 02:04 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Personally, i am 3betting AT from the SB against a steal 100% of the time against any non-rock. The 1/3 structure stops me from defending with the smaller suited hands, but i think i would be giving up to much to not resteal with it, especially since most of the hands you are stealing with im just flat out way ahead of.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I do check the ASB stat and will make exceptions for high ones, I am probably a little tighter with defending than most. I don't know if it's a problem in these full games at fairly small stakes, but one benefit I do get is that most blind stealers will greatly overplay their hands against me on flops where I can be sure I'm way ahead.

[ QUOTE ]
Tim, you should know i have tremendous respect for your game. Even if i hadnt read so many of your posts, your choice of an avatar alone displays vast amounts of intelligence.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
For what its worth, i did have BB as tight/passive post flop, and thought the checkraise was the best way to get him out of the hand. I also think you played your hand fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course I felt stupid after the river, but going back over the hand it's easy to see there is just too much money in the pot for folding to one more bet to be a big mistake.
applej25
03-10-2005, 12:41 PM
[ QUOTE ]
AT should be an automatic threebet from the SB.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thats one of the most rediculous things I've ever seen on this site.
applej25
03-10-2005, 12:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
my advice to you would be never play short-handed. Also, never sit within three seats of me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have played successful short-handed long enough to know I can beat it buddy, and I'd love you at my table any day of the week if you are 3-betting A-10 offsuit.
DeathDonkey
03-10-2005, 12:45 PM
Did you read the part where he said "2+2er open raises on the button". I would think about 3 betting any Ace there, AT is a monster.

-DeathDonkey
Catt
03-10-2005, 02:10 PM
As DD pointed out, there is a rather substantial (dare I say ginormous?) difference between 3-betting ATo from the SB when, say: (1) UTG limps, UTG+1 raises, MP1 coldcalls . . . and (2) folded to Button who raises.

In situation (2) I would have to have the mother of all reads to do anything but 3-bet ATo . . .