am i crazy? baccarah house edge?

[mostsmooth]

last night i got into a minor arguement with a slightly arrogant, although otherwise nice guy, about baccarah(sp?).
somehow we got to talking about edge and he says the player has the edge in bac?!? i of course disagreed, but he insisted and gave me the "ive been gambling my whole life blah blah blah". he was willing to bet me i was wrong. he also started talking about taking the bank, european rules, and some other things im not familiar with (as i have never played the game), so long story short i didnt bet, but im pretty sure i should have. from what i remember, the house edge is one of the smaller edges in the casino, but its a house edge nonetheless, correct? theres no way around this as there is in bj, right?

[tylerdurden]

If you bet on bankers you have an edge. To compensate, the casino charges a commission on winning banker bets.

[alThor]

[ QUOTE ]
he says the player has the edge in bac?!? ...he also started talking about taking the bank, european rules, and some other things im not familiar with (as i have never played the game), so long story short i didnt bet, but im pretty sure i should have. from what i remember, the house edge is one of the smaller edges in the casino, but its a house edge nonetheless, correct? theres no way around this as there is in bj, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

There are various versions of baccarat. In the US, there is only one, which we could call mini baccarat. You bet on either banker or player (forget tie, horrendous 11% house edge!), and the casino dealer does the rest. House edge is around 1%---about the same as craps. Do a web search if you really care about the exact numbers. You are correct that there is no practical (legal) way to beat this game like bj can be beaten by counting.

But, there are also old-style versions of baccarat. Chemin de fer is one. This is the version you would see James Bond playing in those old 60's movies. In this version, there are only two bettors sitting at the table, and they actually play the roles of banker and player. They reverse roles for different hands. Furthermore, they can choose whether to take a third card (according to certain arcane rules), as opposed to mini bac, where the players don't have any decisions. Optimal strategy has been solved for this game. I forget whether the player or banker has the edge, but it really doesn't matter since (1) players change roles on hands (sort of like having the button gives you an edge, but you don't get the button on every hand!), and (2) the casino takes a rake, so in the long run, equally skilled players both lose.

Now technically, if you are playing a poor player, you could have an edge in this European version of the game. But it would have nothing to do with being banker or player. Just like you beat poor poker players because they are bad, not just because of table position.

In summary, I would say you are right. If your friend claims he was thinking of the European version, it still doesn't sound like he really understands the game. If there were a player edge, I guarantee that certain people would have burned the game to the ground decades ago.

alThor

[AngusThermopyle]

Your friend is wrong, for casino baccarat.

The set rules for baccarat makes the bank hand win 45.86%, the player 44.62%, with 9.52% ties ( 8 deck shoe ).

Since the player hand pays off even money, it is clear that the house has an advantage. 1.24%.

The bank wins more than the player, so IF they paid even money, a bet on the bank would have a 1.24% advantage. But they do not pay even money. They pay 95 for 100. (varies, but standard is 5% commission). That gives the house a 1.06% edge. If you lower the commission to 4%, the house edge shrinks to 0.60%, down to 3% it is 0.14%, and at 2% the player would then have an 0.32% advantage on a bet on the bank.

If he is talking about Chemin de Fer, where you play against other players and can take the bank, it would again depend on what the casino charges as commission.

[blingice]

This guy musta been born yesterday if he's been playing his whole life. Yeah, the casino gives you two disadvantages if you bet the banker 1. Worse odds. 2. Part of the win is cut. WRONG!!!!!!!!!


Bling.