Help...Are These No Brainers?

[Dave H.]

All 3 of these hands at Paradise .5/$1 last night. What do I do? I think they're no brainers but want to make sure. Fairly tight table...loose players fold immediately so they are not in any of these hands. In every case, EP1 is a different individual.

This hand came up twice (only the suits changed):

I have K /images/graemlins/heart.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif in late position. EP1 bets, MP1 calls, I call, SB folds, BB checks
4.5 small bets

Flop brings K /images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Everyone checks to me and I bet. BB folds, EP1 calls, MP1 calls...7.5 small bets

Turn brings J /images/graemlins/club.gif

Everyone checks to me. I bet, EP1 calls, MP1 folds...5.75 big bets

River brings 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

EP1 checks, I bet, EP1 raises
What do I do here?

Other hand:

I'm in Late position again with Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/spade.gif
EP1 bets, MP1 calls, I call, SB calls, BB checks...5 small bets.

Flop: K /images/graemlins/spade.gifT /images/graemlins/heart.gif4 /images/graemlins/club.gif
Everyone checks to me and I bet. All call...10 small bets

Turn: A /images/graemlins/heart.gif7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif
Everyone checks to me and I bet. EP1 calls and everyone else folds...7 big bets

River: 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif
EP1 checks, I bet, EP1 raises
Again...WHAT TO DO?

Thanx all!

[davelin]

I'd call both

[joeski19]

A lot of people play any two suited chasing the flush as you know. I've also seen a lot of people raise like that trying to represent the flush. I'd call in both hands.

[Thigh]

What's up with the two cards on the turn for the second hand? Which one, I'm guessing the Ah.

[Wetdog]

[ QUOTE ]

Turn: A /images/graemlins/heart.gif7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

A 2 card turn? I'd double bet. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Seriously, I'd call #1, raise #2 if the turn is the A /images/graemlins/heart.gif, call if it's the 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.

[Thigh]

On the first hand, did you fold after the raise? The reason I ask is that if players see you folding to a raise on the river, they might be tempted to start taking shots at you. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[VTDuffman]

You have to call. You don't have to like it, but you have to call both times. Often, I will check through when the 3rd flush card hits -- but that is *really* weak-tight of me.

[mmbt0ne]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
raise #2 if the turn is the A /images/graemlins/heart.gif, call if it's the 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is completely backwards. 3-betting a check-raise when the flush hits is very bad. If the 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif falls, you have the nuts on the river.

[Wetdog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
raise #2 if the turn is the A /images/graemlins/heart.gif, call if it's the 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is completely backwards. 3-betting a check-raise when the flush hits is very bad. If the 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif falls, you have the nuts on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Man oh manischevitz, are you ever right about that. I guess I should never give advice before noon.

[Thigh]

I gotta ask, but what nut is the 7s giving you? What am I not seeing? Thanks.

[Wetdog]

The 7s breaks up the possible flush, giving you the K high straight on the river.

[Thigh]

Gees, I need my glasses checked. I think the two cards on the turn were confusing me. Thanks.

[MrWookie47]

There's a good chance you're toast, but you gotta call both. Hand one looks like a flush, but I think there's a good enough chance that your opponent would play 2 pair like this or bluff the flush that you have to call.

Hand 2 is confusing because of the double turn card. If it was the A, call the river. If it was the 7, raise the river. Since you're asking about it, I suspect it was the A that hit, so call for the same reason as hand 1. You may not win them frequently, but you'll win them occasionally, so if you always threw them away, you'd be making a huge mistake.

[olavfo]

I very rarely see villains bluffing in situations like these. Still I most often call (always if the pot is big), if only to avoid them trying to take shots at me in the future.

But I hate it. Especially today after getting rivered 5 times in 15+ BB pots that were rightfully mine, but some bastard with a gutshot or a stinking backdoor flush draw shafted me on the river....but I digress.

Anyway, I would call these.

olavfo

[Homer315]

I think you definitely call the first hand. For the second, I think there may be a decent chance an EP player hit two pair (with A-9 or K-9 or Q-9 -- OK, crappy, loose EP player) and, since I have the second nut, I'm raising. The only thing beating me here is the flush, and HU, I'm not totally confident I'm beat there. The flip side of folding to a river raise is three-betting here. Let everyone else at the table learn not to try to represent the flush by taking a shot at me, they're liable to get popped back. Again, the only reason I consider it here is because I have the straight, as opposed to just two pair in the first two hands.

[Dave H.]

[ QUOTE ]
What's up with the two cards on the turn for the second hand? Which one, I'm guessing the Ah.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes...sorry, just the A /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[Dave H.]

[ QUOTE ]
On the first hand, did you fold after the raise? The reason I ask is that if players see you folding to a raise on the river, they might be tempted to start taking shots at you.


[/ QUOTE ]
My gut told me to fold in each instance, but I listened to my brain instead and called.

I was, of course, beaten in every case.

Again, I'm sorry for the confusion with the two cards on the turn for the second hand. It was, of course, A /images/graemlins/heart.gif and there was no 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

I haven't looked at all of the posts yet, but I wonder if anyone folds?

[Dave H.]

Oh PLEASE digress. Since I lost all of those hands, your digressing is actually soothing...lol

[ErrantNight]

hand 1: call. consider raising preflop. easy.

hand 2: probably call, unless you have a read that he's a lag. it'd be nice to 3-bet here, but you have to call a cap and you don't want to. if he's c/r you on these rivers consistently on scare cards you should take note and start popping him back.

[Dave H.]

I like the 3 bet idea on the "straight" hand. If it's capped, I assume you call or do you save a bet since you now believe you have the info you need?

[Dave H.]

I think what I was struggling with here was:

My gut instinct that I was beaten
VS.
Table Image if I folded
VS.
Relative Small Pot Size

Let me ask this: Would pot size EVER matter to anyone given the types of hands I showed?

[detruncate]

Raise pf in hand 1. Call the river raise.

Fold 2&amp;3 pf. Hand 3 is an easy raise with the nuts. Hand 2 should also be raised. If he caught his runner-runner flush, good for him. (I'm assuming the only difference between hand 2&amp;3 is the turn card A/images/graemlins/heart.gif/7/images/graemlins/spade.gif turn card.)

Edit: reconsidering the river raise in hand 2. Probably best to just call. If he has the goods, we get 3-bet. If not, he folds at least some of the time.

[Dave H.]

Bump to see if this question gets some discussion...seems important to me. See bolded question below and thank you.

[ QUOTE ]
I think what I was struggling with here was:

My gut instinct that I was beaten
VS.
Table Image if I folded
VS.
Relative Small Pot Size

Let me ask this: Would pot size EVER matter to anyone given the types of hands I showed?

[/ QUOTE ]