Slowplay, schmoplay (3 hands, moral) [Archive]

Harv72b

03-09-2005, 12:28 AM

So I had a lousy afternoon today on my day off from my "real" job, but made up for it with three very good sessions to cap off the evening & put me comfortably ahead for the day. As is my custom, I was going through my hand histories afterwards and noticed something weird (for me)--in all three of those winning session, the largest pot had been won by...ME!

That's unusual. I generally tend to win a lot of small pots (especially on fairly tight tables, for obvious reasons), and a fair number of medium-sized pots. But big pots? That only happens when I river a flush or OESD, or flop a set vs. an overpair. Since I didn't remember any rivered flushes or very many flopped baby sets, I decided to investigate further...

Lo and behold, I saw what was different today, versus so many of my other sessions: I had done something which I had only rarely dared to do before. Something which went against every fiber of my well-read, studied, best damn poker player this side of TheMississipi.com persona. I had (gasp!) played my strong hands strongly.

I hadn't gotten cute trying to "extract the max" from my opponents. I hadn't decided to wait for the turn to "better protect my hand". I hadn't even realized that "capping the flop will fold all my opponents" or "kill my action on later streets". God, I felt like such a noob!

Let these three hands stand testament to the oft-neglected Art of the Fastplay:

NOTE: I usually raise this preflop. I almost timed out due to heavy action at another table as this hand was dealt, and barely had time to click the "call" button.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, MP2 raises, 2 folds, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, Button calls, SB calls, UTG+2 folds, Hero 3-bets, MP2 caps, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (13.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, Button calls, SB calls.

River: (17.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP2 folds, Button calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 20.50 BB
Main Pot: 20.50 BB, between Button, SB and Hero.

__________________________________________________ __________

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, MP1 calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, CO calls, Button calls, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, MP1 caps, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (21 SB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, CO raises, Button folds, SB calls, MP1 calls, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, SB calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (16.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
SB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, CO raises, SB calls, MP1 calls, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, SB calls $4 (All-In), MP1 calls.

River: (28.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players, 1 all-in)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, CO calls, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 31.50 BB
Main Pot: 28.50 BB, between SB, MP1, Hero and CO.
Pot 2: 3 BB, between MP1, Hero and CO.

__________________________________________________ __________

NOTE: CO in the following hand is a maniac. BB is a decent but not great player who sort of gave a tell in the chat box before calling my turn 3-bet ("dang it").

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
6 folds, CO raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, CO calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, CO 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls, CO calls.

Turn: (12 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, CO caps, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (24 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, CO calls.

Final Pot: 33 BB
Main Pot: 33 BB, between CO, Hero and BB.

The moral of the story: There's a time and a place to slowplay. Usually, it isn't.

bigmac366

03-09-2005, 12:45 AM

in hand 3, arent you worried about the BB possibly having a king. if you were heads up against the maniac then i think you played it perfectly. maybe i'm weak tight but i never like to have a solid player between me and a maniac unless i hold a monster.

Harv72b

03-09-2005, 12:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
in hand 3, arent you worried about the BB possibly having a king. if you were heads up against the maniac then i think you played it perfectly. maybe i'm weak tight but i never like to have a solid player between me and a maniac unless i hold a monster.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was a little worried until he only called the turn bet (and when he typed "dang it" before calling the 3-bet). At that point I was more worried that I was chopping with the other two aces, but since CO was coming along for the ride there was no point in not raising.

EDIT: If you're curious, BB had QQ, but was (justly) worried that I'd push that hard with lower pockets against the maniac.

sthief09

03-09-2005, 01:03 AM

raise preflop in hand 1. ATs is a raising hand

Jake (The Snake)

03-09-2005, 01:12 AM

Nice hands, and I agree people need to fastplay more. You get called more often than you think.

Whenever I play like this though, the river in hands 2 and 3 make flushes for somebody else and I lose. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Harv72b

03-09-2005, 01:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
raise preflop in hand 1. ATs is a raising hand

[/ QUOTE ]

I know. The little clock said "3" by the time I noticed I had my cards on this table, and the "call" button was closer to my cursor than "raise". /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

This is why I generally close my other tables when I'm sitting with a maniac. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Harv72b

03-09-2005, 01:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Whenever I play like this though, the river in hands 2 and 3 make flushes for somebody else and I lose. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I was hoping the river card made a flush for someone in hand 2. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Jake (The Snake)

03-09-2005, 01:20 AM

oops, read too fast

yeah thats such a good feeling when it gets capped by someone with the high flush and you take it all /images/graemlins/smile.gif