Busted Flush Draw, Do I Call?

[eMarkM]

Online PP 20/40, typical tough table.

UTG with AhTh and I call. Is this too loose in this position? MP caller and SB completes, BB comes for free ride. Of all the players at the table I considered MP and SB to be the loosest to an otherwise tight table.

FLOP: [ 9h 7s 8h ]

Straight draw and flush draw, mine to the nuts. Blinds check to me and I bet my nut draw. MP raises and we lose the blinds. It's HU.

TURN: [ 9h 7s 8h ] [ 2d ]

Blank. I check, MP bets, I call.

RIVER: [ 9h 7s 8h 2d ] [ 7d ]

I missed my draw and check. MP bets. There's 8BB in the pot. What do I do?

[Ginogino]

As regards your limp pre-flop, ATs is right on the borderline of playable hands. I know many posters will disagree with me, but I'd need to know that 90% of the time there would be no raise AND I'd get 4+ other players. This is not usually the case, but it's really nice when it is.

When MP raises you on the flop, you've got to believe that the flop hit him in some way, though this could be as little as top pair. Sure, he could be making a play for a free card with a flush draw, but among the hands he'd re-raise you with two "zone" cards unsuited is more likely than "zone" cards suited (and if he does hold two in the zone he's got a pair with a straight draw or top pair or two pair or something). That said, you call his re-raise on the flop quite properly, I think.

When he bets the river, what are the chances he's bluffing? I'd call (if nothing else, I sleep better afterwards).

As for playing ATs UTG, this should be pretty automatic except in a very wild game. If we play so super tight UTG that we don't play hands like this, we are giving away way too much info when we do play UTG. For example, if a player folds ATs and JTs, then I know the only way he has a T is if he has pocket tens.

Of course, one could adopt a complex mixed strategy, by playing only red ATs and black JTs, for example, but this strikes me as being too tight anyway. You can alway fold if it gets 3 bet, and you can use these hands to set up limping with big hands.

On the hand in question, your friend may play any QJ, and 2 fulsh cards, or even a TQ or TK or TA like this. I would consider a check-raise as well as a call vs. fold. But other than outlining this, it's a pretty player dependent play. I don't think calling can be too wrong, if it is wrong.

Dear Mark:

I believe Limping UTG w/ ATs is reasonable and not too loose.

Information you have regarding the river decision is his flop raise. If he had a flush or straight draw, would he raise and risk pushing out the blinds for a potential free card on the turn or would he raise because he has a piece of the flop and wants to narrow the field?

Since he did not take the free card on the turn I really think he has a pair. Since he is a "loose player" it is likely he limped with one of these cards. Additionally there are other ways you could lose if he doesn't have some of the flop. He could have a small pair or something like AJ that would beat you. Therefore I am inclined to say fold this one, although in doing so I had to ask myself at what pot size would I call or raise? This was difficult to determine but I think its close here with 8 BB so that 10 or 11 BB I would consider switching my fold to a call or raise.

Yvonne

[eMarkM]

Since he didn't raise pre-flop I couldn't put him on AK, AQ or other A-face card (ok, maybe AJ). When he raised the turn I didn't think he had JT (a common limp hand) for the straight as you would think he'd like the blinds to come along for the turn to spring a raise. Though hitting a set was also possible and he's making the str8 draws pay. But I think he may have raised preflop with 77,88,99 to try an iso me.

So the other possiblities were Axs and he hit a pair, or overcards where in either case his raise was an attempt to get it HU. I thought each about equally likely so I called him down on the end.

He turned over QJo and I took it down with A high.

[eMarkM]

When he raised the turn

I meant to say "raised the flop"

[Piers]

I think you palyed this had far too passivly. If I had palyed it at all I would have bet or raised on every street.

Before the flop its boarderline. If your pre flop play is balanced to allow open calling then maybe call. At a typical PP20/40 I might fold ATs with ten opponents and raise with eight.

Flop: Ok he might have flopped straight, but one or two pair or a draw are more likely.

You have 9 flush outs and six more straght outs (maybe even three aces). Assuming the flush and straight outs are good, then thats 15. With anything above 13 outs with two cards to come your in the lead. (Reduce your outs by one for each two redraw outs he has to beat all your outs). If he has an overpair your in the lead, if he has two pair, his full house redraws make it about even. If he has a draw, he could be drawing dead. Its not often you can (re)-raise for value on the come heads up at hold'em but this looks like one of them.

Turn: You passive play is a bit more forgivable here. Your probably no longer in the lead. Still your too easy to read if you always check in this position.

One approch might be to bet here, if raised check fold the river if you miss. getting an extra bet when you get your draw and costing the same as calling both streets if you miss. Have you seen him bluff rase here? it should be in your online notes.

River: Your passive play has anounced to the table your drawing. He knows yove probably missed so is if he's got a holding your beating he will often bluff.

In effect your play has induced a bluff, so call, you will be supprised how often he will have something like QhJh. The fact you've got the Ace means you are likely beating a busted draw so no need to rase. However if your passive play is typical, and you have played against him a lot, then a check rasie may supprise him into folding a hand thats beating you.

[Jeffage]

I'd consider a checkraise semi-bluff on the turn. You have many outs if called, and you may win the pot right there. This move works particularly well in tough games.

Jeff