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Somekid

03-08-2005, 11:00 PM

How is my line here? Is the river fold a mistake? Also should I check the flop and bet a non-scary turn? No real reads

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
3 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 2 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, MP2 calls, MP3 raises, Hero calls, BB calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

River: (10 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP2 bets, MP3 calls, Hero folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: 12 BB

hate

03-08-2005, 11:09 PM

Your river fold's a mistake, but your river check is a bigger mistake, and you want to raise preflop on the off chance BB will fold.

moot

03-08-2005, 11:42 PM

I agree that folding for one more bet is a big mistake. A huge mistake, in fact. You could easily have the best hand.

But I don't raise preflop with this hand. Raising to get the BB to fold isn't a particularly good reason. If you think you have good equity and your opponents will limp with a lot of bad hands then you can consider a raise.

JDErickson

03-09-2005, 12:12 AM

You have to bet this river. Don't assume someone has you beat. You can safely fold to a raise.

hate

03-09-2005, 06:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree that folding for one more bet is a big mistake. A huge mistake, in fact. You could easily have the best hand.

But I don't raise preflop with this hand. Raising to get the BB to fold isn't a particularly good reason. If you think you have good equity and your opponents will limp with a lot of bad hands then you can consider a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're trying to protect a weak made hand by driving people out. This is a marginal example because 2-suiteds will have odds to call this, and at .5/1 I wouldn't generally expect the BB to fold regardless, but open raising or raising to one limper in MP or LP is important at levels where people actually respect preflop action.

milesdyson

03-09-2005, 06:30 AM

I don't like the combination of your flop and turn actions.

I obviously like to have a read here, but in general MP3 is not raising with trip 5s here on the flop. By the time you bet and MP3 raises, the pot is 9 SB. If you 3-bet here you're giving BB and MP2 5.5:1 on their calls. Now, they've already called once at 5:1 (which was probably a mistake). But, by 3-betting the flop, they're:

1. less likely to call here with overcards for fear of drawing thin.
or 2. making a mistake again by calling.

If you just call the flop raise (which is very likely just a 7 with a decent kicker and not a draw pumping raise or free card play), you should check raise a safe turn card to once again get BB and MP2 out.

The way you played it, though, bet the river and fold to a raise. And no, I wouldn't raise this preflop.

_bustedflush_

03-09-2005, 08:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the combination of your flop and turn actions.

I obviously like to have a read here, but in general MP3 is not raising with trip 5s here on the flop. By the time you bet and MP3 raises, the pot is 9 SB. If you 3-bet here you're giving BB and MP2 5.5:1 on their calls. Now, they've already called once at 5:1 (which was probably a mistake). But, by 3-betting the flop, they're:

1. less likely to call here with overcards for fear of drawing thin.
or 2. making a mistake again by calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am probably missing something, but if we 3bet the flop aren't BB and MP2 getting something like 12:1 when it comes around to them, making that call very easy?

[ QUOTE ]
If you just call the flop raise (which is very likely just a 7 with a decent kicker and not a draw pumping raise or free card play), you should check raise a safe turn card to once again get BB and MP2 out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely. Perfect spot for this.

Somekid

03-09-2005, 11:01 AM

I like the 3-bet idea or the c/r on a safe turn. I'm assuming that I can only do one or the other. If I 3-bet the flop then I should lead out on any turn right? I dont think I'll be able to 3-bet the flop and get in a c/r on the turn.

thulin888

03-09-2005, 11:07 AM

I would have raised this PF, I like you flopplay but dislikes the riverfold.

Buckmulligan

03-09-2005, 11:12 AM

Looks good but I think you have to call the river. I may have 3 bet the flop hoping to fold BB and MP2, but I think leading out on the turn is good given you didn't take that course of action.

milesdyson

03-09-2005, 03:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I am probably missing something, but if we 3bet the flop aren't BB and MP2 getting something like 12:1 when it comes around to them, making that call very easy?

[/ QUOTE ]

Flop: (4 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, MP2 calls, MP3 raises, Hero calls, BB calls, MP2 calls.

Action (pot size)

Hero bets (5 SB)
BB calls (6 SB)
MP2 calls (7 SB)
MP3 raises (9 SB)
Hero 3-bets (11 SB)

BB and MP2 have only put in one bet on the flop. They know have to call 2 more in an 11 SB pot.

ErrantNight

03-09-2005, 03:51 PM

raise preflop.

i have no idea how the flop plays after your raise and lead.

i think even as you played it you should bet this river.

detruncate

03-09-2005, 04:49 PM

I could go either way pf. Would certainly raise with position.

I'd 3-bet this flop and lead the turn if called. MP3 is last to act, and I don't like the prospect of giving everyone a free card if he decides to check the turn through when we smoothcall with the intention of c/r'ing. A lot of people will get scared off the follow-up with the 7 when they get so many callers... especially if an overcard or other scary falls. Draw pumping and/or a free card play also isn't out of the question.

As you played it, bet the river.