200/400 - In a little over my head perhaps. River action

[bicyclekick]

200/400 online. This level is a step above my comfort zone. I'm now finally getting more comfortable with 1/2 but I saw a pretty good 2/4 game and wanted to play a few orbits.

I'm not here to play scared poker because if I am I dont think I should play in the game, although I'm sure subconciously I'm playing a touch scared.

Folded to mp3 who is a 29/14/1 over aggro will raise a lot of stuff when folded to him type of player who raises, I 3bet right behind with AQo.

Flop comes AQ3 with 2 clubs. He check calls.

Turn is a K he check calls.

River is a J and he bets and I raise planning on calling a 3 bet (because of the type of player he is and I can't really put him on a T based on how he played the hand). Am i losing it here with both the raise and the calldown?

[stoxtrader]

given description, nicely played.

[The Truth]

I think if you can fold to a 3 bet then raise. If not,
I would just call and show it down.
if not you are losing 2 bets when you are behind and gaining 1 when you are ahead. I dont think you are ahead
2-1 plus he'll fold a complete bluff.

[Yeti]

What site offers 200/400 full table?

[ClaytonN]

FTP

[skp]

29/14/1: I asume that the 1 refers to postflop aggression signifying passive postflop play. If so, isn't his river bet a scary one for B-Kick to raise and then call a 3 bet with?

I am not sure why Bike has him pegged as "overaggro" given the 1 rating.

I know that the postflop aggro rating is great to pick off bluffs when made by guys with a small number (i.e. their river bets are either with monsters or are bluffs because they are not prone to value bet marginal hands)

But here the guy could easily have a monster and if he is bluffing, Bike's raise would be pointless. In fact, his postflop rating of 1 should specifically tell us that he is not betting QJ at the end.

What am I missing here about these stats?

[bicyclekick]

I realized that after and didn't have his stats in front of me. I wasn't looking at the stats when I posted the hand. I just remember him opening quite a few hands and being an agressive player. YOu're right, an aggression of 1 is not congruent with my views of him. I must have just remembered the number wrong but it could be because he check/raises a lot which is another way people get lower numbers. I dunno. Go with my overaggro vs the stat. Feeling > numbers.

I would expect a T to check raise that river as it's going to be virutally impossible for most 3 betting hands (preflop) to check behind on that river. Then again maybe he's thinking to the next level and knows I think this and wants to make it 3 bets.

[Philuva]

[ QUOTE ]
River is a J and he bets and I raise planning on calling a 3 bet (because of the type of player he is and I can't really put him on a T based on how he played the hand). Am i losing it here with both the raise and the calldown?

[/ QUOTE ]

If he is over aggro there are a lot of hands that he could have a T. KT, QT ot T9ccI just think this river bet is usually a desperate bluff or a T too often for a river raise to be correct.

[J.A.Sucker]

Call the river bet. Anything else is excess action.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
Call the river bet. Anything else is excess action.

[/ QUOTE ]

[geormiet]

Hey bk,

What about raising, then 4 betting if he 3 bets, planning on folding to a 5 bet? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif


But seriously... why do you feel that a T in is hand is unlikely? Is it only due to the fact that he did not go for a river c-r? Or is it due to his play up to this point? (because nothing about his play up until the river tells me that he doesn't have a T, but I'm wondering if I'm missing something)

Since he doesn't know very much about you, I don't think that he can safely checkraise the river with a hand like AT, TT, QT, or KT.

I also don't think AT is that unlikely. He may have been planning on leading any river with it.

[bicyclekick]

I was talking with a friend and he told me I left out an important piece of information. I don't know why it skipped my mind when i posted it, but I was definately aware of it during the hand. There were 2 hands played vs this guy previously. The first one is he opened in late mp, i 3 bet 8's in the hijack, button capped and the flop came AA6 and he c/r the flop with AK and bet the rest of the way.

The other hand i raised utg, he called in his bb with 32c, flopped 56K, called on the flop, c/r a 4 on the turn that was a club and checked the river when it paired the K. He's a check-raiser for sure with his big hands.

So when he bet the river I figured it was much less likely he had a T. I kinda short changed you guys by not posting those two lead up hands first. I really wasn't all that worried about a 3 bet or I wouldn't have done it but of course it crossed my mind.

[roy_miami]

I think 99% of 2+2ers would also checkraise the 32c hand as he did. As for the AK hand, I would checkraise the flop if I thought you would call me down with 88. And for the hand in question I would lead out with my straight almost 100% of the time in this situation, as would most 2+2ers I would imagine. So, if he thinks like me, he could easily be betting his 10 here. He could also be betting lots of other stuff you beat, but if you raise and get 3 bet I think it should be an easy fold. I would just call for the record.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]

He's a check-raiser for sure with his big hands.


[/ QUOTE ]

The one-card broadway straight is so poorly concealed that I think even big checkraisers are going to bet out a lot when it hits.

[bicyclekick]

Ok, it appears I'm in way over my head. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[1800GAMBLER]

[ QUOTE ]
i 3 bet 8's in the hijack, button capped and the flop came AA6 and he c/r the flop with AK and bet the rest of the way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was this you paying him off?

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i 3 bet 8's in the hijack, button capped and the flop came AA6 and he c/r the flop with AK and bet the rest of the way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was this you paying him off?

[/ QUOTE ]

No sir, I folded the flop. CO paid him off though.

[bicyclekick]

Ok. You guys are right and I was wrong on this one. I got the point (which is why i usually post hands) and got lucky and made $400 from my mistake because he called and MHWG.

I'm usually the guy on the tenetive side of things when it comes to plays like this...but I had been thinking I need to value raise the river a little more often but took it too far on this hand.

I also don't think I should be playing 2/4. It's not something that's really on my agenda...but it's not like I'm the first guy to play a little over my head. Not that I was outclassed by the players in the game...(i usually would be but found a decent game)...just psychologically the money involved...

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok. You guys are right and I was wrong on this one. I got the point (which is why i usually post hands) and got lucky and made $400 from my mistake because he called and MHWG.

I'm usually the guy on the tenetive side of things when it comes to plays like this...but I had been thinking I need to value raise the river a little more often but took it too far on this hand.

I also don't think I should be playing 2/4. It's not something that's really on my agenda...but it's not like I'm the first guy to play a little over my head. Not that I was outclassed by the players in the game...(i usually would be but found a decent game)...just psychologically the money involved...

[/ QUOTE ]

What made you decide that your play was poor?

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
What made you decide that your play was poor?

[/ QUOTE ]

The majority of posters (all of whom respectable posters) as well as my poker friends said I should have called. I don't think it's a huge mistake but I think they're right. I don't think calling the 3 bet is right either but at the time at the table I know I would have sat there for 25 of the 30 seconds alloted and pulled the wrong trigger (called) because that's what I do in hands like this, especially when I'm a little uncomfortable in the first place.