How to raise PFR%

[Falcon900EX]

Hello,

i have a hard time to raise my PFR%.
I follow most of the time the guidelines in the SSHE tight pre flop chart.
I have overall a 6.5% PFR factor.
My VPIP is around 16%.
Total aggro is 2.54.
Are there some hands where you could raise more pre flop then the chart tells?
I think i would be happy with 8%PRF
Any suggestions?
Tx

[DavidC]

You can get that pfr as high as 12...

position, position, position.

Actually... 12 seems a little high.

Sorry.

I think I'm sitting at maybe 7 right now.

But admittedly, I don't raise enough.

Edit: could other posters share their stats for this?

[toss]

How many hands have you played?

[mmbt0ne]

You know those pretty cards with the same colors and ranks close to each other? They LOVE to be raised in CO/Button after a few limpers. Not all of them, but the ones with some high card value too (JTs, J9s, T9s, QTs, etc.) Also, open-raising is very important.

[btspider]

just answer these and peeps will identify the easiest additions.

1. UTG raising standards?

2. 1 limper to you in MP2.. what do you raise?

3. 1 limper to you in CO.. what do you raise?

4. 2 limpers to you in CO.. what do you raise?

5. 4 limpers to you on the button.. what do you raise?

6. 2+ limpers to you in the SB.. what do you raise?

use a format like: AJo+, ATs+, KQo, TT+, etc..

[sin808]

sample size is important.

If the sample is relatively small, you may be raising the proper hands, just not getting them often enough to raise the %.

[Shillx]

The key to getting it up is raising in late position. So if there are 4 typical limpers and you are on the button with T9s, you should raise. If the blinds are known to be loose, you should probably raise something as low as 76s in this spot. If there are 2 MP limpers and you are on the button with QJs, you should raise. These kinds of raises are the ones that drive up your PFR% beyond the normal raising hands in unraised pots (TT+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo).

Brad

[Falcon900EX]

hm sample size is round about 20000 hands at 05/1 and 1/2.
Is KT0 on the button against 1 limper and the blinds a raising hand?

Tx

[LoaferGee12]

Yes. Another example is a hand like A8o from the CO/button after a loose limper or two.

[LoaferGee12]

Also, remember to take free cards when you see fit and not auto-betting each flop. The examples Shillx used verse a bunch of limpers you really should only be betting the flop with a strong draw or made hand.

[Falcon900EX]

what about 88 in MP2or3 or later if 1or 2 limpers?

[Peter Harris]

i would only raise 88 there if the players behind were tight-passive and the limpers are loose. 99 is the cutoff point for raising/limping debates.

[zeropotential]

btspider... (this is also open to others)

what do you raise with in each of these situations that you listed

[deepsquat]

What exactly is the theory behind pf raising in late position with sligh? is it cos you have position and can make the most from the flop, Can some1 plz explain it to me.

thanks

[KaiShin]

I think you should be asking yourself why you want to raise preflop, instead of simply focusing on getting a number where you want it to be.

Do you limp too much preflop, especially in early and mid positions?

Do you miss opportunities to raise with premium hands because you are slowplaying, or otherwise being tricky?

Do you not take advantage of late position enough, perhaps by limping or folding with marginal hands when the action is folded to you?

Do you just call in the blinds with premium hands, perhaps afraid to raise because of position disadvantage?

Figuring out why you are not raising a lot preflop will be a lot more beneficial to your game than just adding a bunch of hands you should raise with. It will also allow you to adapt your game more slowly, which hopefully will stem the losses when you start raising hands you don't really have control over postflop.

[zeropotential]

[ QUOTE ]
just answer these and peeps will identify the easiest additions.

[/ QUOTE ]
sweet.. well i didn't post the thread.. but i'm currently hovering around 8.5 pfr% and wouldn't mind seeing this go up to around 10... i have a feeling im not taking advantage of LP raises enough....

[ QUOTE ]
1. UTG raising standards?

[/ QUOTE ]
99+, ATs+, AJ+, KJs+, KQ (most of the time)

[ QUOTE ]
2. 1 limper to you in MP2.. what do you raise?

[/ QUOTE ]
same as above but add: 88
(should i be adding more here? perhaps some Axs?)

[ QUOTE ]
3. 1 limper to you in CO.. what do you raise?

[/ QUOTE ]
same as above but add: A8s+, AT, 77, QTs, JTs
(what else should be here.. i know there should be more)

[ QUOTE ]
4. 2 limpers to you in CO.. what do you raise?

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't raise 88-77 anymore... but the same as 3

[ QUOTE ]
5. 4 limpers to you on the button.. what do you raise?

[/ QUOTE ]
any pocket pairs, suited conneted highcards... even J9s (stuff like that)
everything listed in SSH recomendations for tight games

[ QUOTE ]
6. 2+ limpers to you in the SB.. what do you raise?

[/ QUOTE ]
what ths ssh tight guide says... should i change?

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
What exactly is the theory behind pf raising in late position with sligh? is it cos you have position and can make the most from the flop, Can some1 plz explain it to me.

thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

Position is a big factor, meaning that you have a much better idea of how strong your hand is compared to the players in the hand. Also you have a huge tactical advantage postflop with position in hold'em. Another is raising for value. A hand like A9o against 1-2 loose limpers is for value, since you probably have the best hand pf. Also, we sometimes forget that a poker game begins as a struggle for the ante/blinds. You should look to do some blind stealing against the right opponent.

[btspider]

quick, rough thoughts.. it doesn't mean i raise 100% of the time.

1. UTG raising standards?
AJo+, ATs+, KQo, KJs+, 99+

2. 1 limper to you in MP2.. what do you raise?
add: ATo, A9s, KJo, KTs, QJs, 77+

3. 1 limper to you in CO.. what do you raise?
add: A8o, A7s, K9o, QTo, K8s, QTs, JTs, 55+

4. 2 limpers to you in CO.. what do you raise?
UTG + ATo, KJo, QJo, KTs, QJs, QTs, 88+

5. 4 limpers to you on the button.. what do you raise?
AJo, A8s, KQo, K9s, QTs, JTs, T8s, 87s, 55+
(i gotta work on this)

6. 2+ limpers to you in the SB.. what do you raise?
eh, varies by # of limpers..

[LoaferGee12]

[ QUOTE ]
What exactly is the theory behind pf raising in late position with sligh? is it cos you have position and can make the most from the flop, Can some1 plz explain it to me.

thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

Isura hit it right. You are going to pick up a lot of these pots UI on the flop if you get this HU as well.

[zeropotential]

thanks for your thoughts....

quick question about 5. (4 limpers to you on the button.. what do you raise?)
in the ss forum yesterday and there was lots of talk about raising any pocket pair with 4+ (it might have been 5+) limpers to you in the button...

what do you feel about this?

[btspider]

yeah, read those topics. CDC's hand was 44 i think with 5 limpers. 5 limpers, raise em all. 4 limpers, drop the real babies. a free card or winning UI will be tougher than with 55+.

[Catt]

[ QUOTE ]
I think i would be happy with 8%PRF

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

[DMBFan23]

[ QUOTE ]
yeah, read those topics. CDC's hand was 44 i think with 5 limpers. 5 limpers, raise em all. 4 limpers, drop the real babies. a free card or winning UI will be tougher than with 55+.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think always raising these PPs will get you into a lot of trouble. a lot of the time it's good to just limp.

on a different topic, I wouldn't advise someone looking to up their PFR to about 7 or 8 to start working on the isolation plays...IMO that's what gets you from 8 to 10ish. I would advise a PFR virgin to start making value raises like KJs UTG, and QTs after 4 limpers, and JTs after 3 limpers on the button. stuff like that where they're still playing hands they would have played anyway, just now they're the aggressor. also open raises with hands they might not raise UTG. and, raising from the blinds with hands like QJs and ATs. just little value raises with strong suited hands in situations where he might not raise/open raise them now.

Also, working on blind stealing is a good way to get it up, but you won't come up with a lot of blind steal situations at the micros.

[zuluking]

What a GREAT thread! Bookmark this one boys!

[gvibes]

I've been trying to get more aggressive preflop, and looser in general (I was at about 16.5/8.5 after 10k hands in PT at .5/1) after reading the Nate the Great post. I just checked out my last ~2k hands - 21/13!!!

I'm running obscenely well over that period (>12 BB/100), so I'm really not sure how much of those numbers have to do with the cards, or with my style. We'll find out during my next downswing.

And AKs and AQs are slowly inching their way to profitability.

[zuluking]

[ QUOTE ]
after reading the Nate the Great post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could someone put up a link to that post please?

[zeropotential]

I'm assuming they're talking about this (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=holdem&Number=1767198&fpar t=1&PHPSESSID=)

[sin808]

This one? (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1767198&page=&view=&s b=5&o=)

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
yeah, read those topics. CDC's hand was 44 i think with 5 limpers. 5 limpers, raise em all. 4 limpers, drop the real babies. a free card or winning UI will be tougher than with 55+.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats a great example, remember Postition is the second most important thing in HE, you need to take advantage of the CO and Button as much as possible, in that hand his raise preflop, let him see the turn, on which he added a draw that let him see the river, where he hit and won a solid pot

if he limps, he folds the flop 90% of the time, or doesn't have odds on the turn to see the river

back to the original question you don't want to become obsessed with stats, it hurts your game, you want to understand what to raise given various situations ..

[Catt]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think i would be happy with 8%PRF

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure this came off as intended.

I ask "Why?" because I think you ought to be making plays that are driven by substantive concerns about your play.

Worrying about what your stats are, and "correcting" your game to bring stats into line, is backwards. You should be worried about where your game is. Statistics can alert you to holes in your game -- but you cannot adjust your game to achieve a "nice" statistical position. You should want to adjust your PFR (perhaps) because you think you're not playing PFR as well as you could be -- you should not be adjusting your pre-flop play because PokerTracker tells you your PFR is 6.5% instead of 8.0% (though you might look at your play if you saw this stat).

[btspider]

bump