How Do Those At The 'Top' Learn To Play?

[Xyeej]

I was recently intrigued after a reading a post on good 15/30 players. At the 10/20 level and above level, the games seem to get pretty tough. I sure 2+2 has its fair share of good players playing the 10/20, 15/30, and 30/60. But what about all the other winning players? Probably most of them have never heard of 2+2 or just flat out choose not to come here.

Where do they learn their game? This can be extrapolated into players like Danial N. and Phil Ivey. These guys play 4K/8K. Where do you get the skill set for that? Do they have their own theories on play that they have developed through experience? Is there some sort of universal 'poker truth' out there that they have figured out?

Take Gigabet for example. He's a player in his own class. He seems to be pretty damn good and only few can ever aspire to his level of understanding/play of the game.

Im talking about that group of poker player. What really gets you to that level? Merely 2+2 or a few key books cannot be the reason, bc that would be too easy.

Should i even be asking this question? The odds are only a handful in this forum could ever answer this question and if they knew the answer, why would they give it out?

Am i outthinking myself here? rambling?

[k_squared]

PASSION AND OBCESSION. For the best, the game is transparent. They understand why people are playing as they do... they can sense when people are making moves, and when they can make moves. I remember reading somewhere that Phil ivey never read a book on poker. The best are the best because they understand not only the game, but their opponents so well that they can adjust to their play.

Practically anyone can learn to be a decent poker player, but at some point what it takes to be great is understanding how to manipulate your opponents, how to make them do what you want them to... at least that is my hypothesis!

-k_squared

[Xyeej]

[ QUOTE ]

Should i even be asking this question? The odds are only a handful in this forum could ever answer this question and if they knew the answer, why would they give it out?


[/ QUOTE ]

heh

[TomCollins]

He told Sklansky otherwise.

[Leonardo]

I believe that you are looking at this the wrong way. Poker is not unlike any other activity. One may ask how did Bill Gates get to where he is? Did he just read a few programming books? Obviously not. As was said by another poster, obsession has a lot to do with it. Intelligence is a big factor. But when it comes down to it, you can bet your ass that those guys you are talking about have two things in common. (1) They work their butt off trying to understand the game, away from the table, and (2) they have an ability to focus intensly on what they are doing. Focus in poker cannot be underestimated. I believe it is the most important factor. In summary, just look at other people who are considered some of the best ever in their field, such as Gates, Jordan, Sampras,Woods etc and you will see that the same thing applies in each case. Obsession, hard work and focus.

[k_squared]

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He told Sklansky otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

From Phil's interview in Card Player magazine...

PI: I think it has a lot to do with your own ambitions and your own ego. When I started playing poker, it wasn’t straight uphill. Lots of people told me I shouldn’t try to do this as a living, that I should go to school. But I kept at it, and kept wanting to learn and get better, and learn from the people around me. I didn’t have anybody teach me to play poker, I just learned it on my own. I had people, as I was coming up, whom I would talk to about poker and discuss hands with, <font color="red"> but pretty much all of my poker knowledge is self-taught. It’s from experience playing hands, and remembering those hands, and constantly thinking about poker. </font>

So, if he did read anything it is not what he attributes being good at the game to. He clearly says it is playing and thinking about the game that made him better... whether or not reading a book can on poker can get you to think deeply about the subject is largely dependant on the person.

Lots of people read poker books and it doesn't help them at all... in faact I would be willing to bet it often hurts them because they don't really understand what they are reading. The most important thing seems to be the desire to think deeply about the game and all of its nuances... doing that requires passion.

-K_squared

[Chaos81]

[ QUOTE ]

From Phil's interview in Card Player magazine... <font color="red"> but pretty much all of my poker knowledge is self-taught. It’s from experience playing hands, and remembering those hands, and constantly thinking about poker. </font>

[/ QUOTE ]
That I right there is what I believe.

How many of us sit around and do nothing but think, speak, dream, play poker all day, 365 days a year? Probably not many of us. Those that are at the top, do.

[New York Jet]

Phil declared Super System as the greatest poker book ever written in WPT Season 1.

[Goodnews]

[ QUOTE ]
I believe that you are looking at this the wrong way. Poker is not unlike any other activity. One may ask how did Bill Gates get to where he is? Did he just read a few programming books? Obviously not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill Gates didn't write a line of code. He rode the coat tails of the market leaders and cheated and lied his way to get to the top. If anything, Gates spent all his time thinknig of how to outmaneuvre the entire market.

Fun Fact: The key moment is Gates being able to buy the DOS program for $10 000 and sell it to IBM for millions AND retain ownership.

[sin808]

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Fun Fact: The key moment is Gates being able to buy the DOS program for $10 000 and sell it to IBM for millions AND retain ownership.

[/ QUOTE ]

IIRC, it was still CP/M when he bought it. It didn't turn into DOS until he changed the prompt to the C:\.

[PairTheBoard]

http://www.twoplustwo.com/magazine/current/pruitt0305.html

Some good advice I believe.

PairTheBoard

[Hermlord]

[ QUOTE ]
I believe that you are looking at this the wrong way. Poker is not unlike any other activity. One may ask how did Bill Gates get to where he is? Did he just read a few programming books? Obviously not. As was said by another poster, obsession has a lot to do with it. Intelligence is a big factor. But when it comes down to it, you can bet your ass that those guys you are talking about have two things in common. (1) They work their butt off trying to understand the game, away from the table, and (2) they have an ability to focus intensly on what they are doing. Focus in poker cannot be underestimated. I believe it is the most important factor. In summary, just look at other people who are considered some of the best ever in their field, such as Gates, Jordan, Sampras,Woods etc and you will see that the same thing applies in each case. Obsession, hard work and focus.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gates' code (his personally, back in the day, and his company's today) sucks big hairy donkey balls. If wealth was directly correlated to code quality, Bill would be selling his butthole for ramen money. He's certainly talented at bullying the marketplace, but I've written better code by having monkeys hurl their feces at a canvas.

Man, I *really* hate MS code.

[k_squared]

[ QUOTE ]
Phil declared Super System as the greatest poker book ever written in WPT Season 1.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough, he did in fact read poker books... that I do believe. But what slao seems to be true is that he feels his true education happened at the poker tables... just because it is the best poker book ever written doesn't mean it can teach poker in and of itself, all it means is that it is better than the other books. I think that books do increase our ability to learn the concepts that underly the game, but only for those who put the work in at the tables. The concepts in and of themselves are fairly meaningless until you can give them the context of live play, until you can frame the concepts in your own experiences.

-k_squared

[seahawktd]

[/ QUOTE ]

Gates' code (his personally, back in the day, and his company's today) sucks big hairy donkey balls. If wealth was directly correlated to code quality, Bill would be selling his butthole for ramen money.


[/ QUOTE ]


LOL.. you're a funny guy.

[Dangergirl]

[ QUOTE ]


Gates' code (his personally, back in the day, and his company's today) sucks big hairy donkey balls. If wealth was directly correlated to code quality, Bill would be selling his butthole for ramen money. He's certainly talented at bullying the marketplace, but I've written better code by having monkeys hurl their feces at a canvas.

Man, I *really* hate MS code.

[/ QUOTE ]
NH

[terrapin314]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Gates' code (his personally, back in the day, and his company's today) sucks big hairy donkey balls. If wealth was directly correlated to code quality, Bill would be selling his butthole for ramen money. He's certainly talented at bullying the marketplace, but I've written better code by having monkeys hurl their feces at a canvas.

Man, I *really* hate MS code.

[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO. I actually emailed this to some mac buddies of mine. /images/graemlins/grin.gif