Mechanics for Multitabling SNG's (Timing & Breaks)?

[DrButch]

There are many posts in the beginner's area about screen resolution and other technical issues for playing on multiple tables (and suggestions like take it slow, modify your BR accordingly, and so on). However, I couldn't find suggestions on the timing mechanics of multitabling SNGs (forgive me if I missed posts due to bad UBB searching). Specifically I would greatly appreciate a discussion on:
<ul type="square"> Is there a good way to stagger the start time? (For example, if you are doing 3 SNG's do you offset each 15 minutes, assuming a 45 minute game length?)
How do you handle the mundane issue of going to the bathroom? Do you plan 45 minutes ahead and unstagger the games, plan to multitable in X hour increments, avoid drinking Diet Coke while playing, or what?
When you find yourself in more than one heads-up game, do you intentionally prioritize and miss hands in other tables, or for those of you who do 32 tables, write 2+2 columns, and file their taxes at the same time never miss a hand? /images/graemlins/smile.gif
[/list]
Thanks!
Butch

[Scuba Chuck]

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When you find yourself in more than one heads-up game, do you intentionally prioritize and miss hands in other tables, or for those of you who do 32 tables, write 2+2 columns, and file their taxes at the same time never miss a hand?

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If this is your strategy or process, you have too many tables open.

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How do you handle the mundane issue of going to the bathroom?

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Assuming we're talking about #1, I just wait for a time when I can hit fold on all the hands at one time, and run, and hope to make it back before the beeping stops.

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Is there a good way to stagger the start time?

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This is clearly a beginner question. Before the flames begin, note that I will quantify my answer by answering it the way that benefits OP. Before I was multi-tabling (I currently fire up 4 at one time), I would get so bored after I finished one game to start all the way over on the next from the beginning. It was most frustrating when I was out on a bad beat. So, I began firing up the next SNG once I completed (or near to) level 3. And so on. This generally allowed me to make sure my primary focus was on the game I was furthest into, and so that I was not at GO (monopoly term) for the next game after I won (or was out).

IMO, you need to give every hand for every table you play the time and priority it deserves. If you cannot do so, then you need to reduce the number of tables you're playing.

[citanul]

Stagger the games enough so that you will be comfortable playing as many as could get to 4 or 5 handed or less at once possibly. This amount can be 0, or length of one tournament. It varies by person, and varies for that person over the course of their career. Only you can determine your confidence/comfort level.

Re: bathroom -&gt; you're going to get a lot of "get a laptop" answers from other people. From me, you'll get: if it's number 1, you should be able to figure it out during hte tournaments, and run. If it's number 2, hold it, plan your tournament starting times around it, whatever.

Re: do you let your other games die away - absolutely not. If you can't play all your tables given anything that may come up, don't play so many games.

citanul

[jackdaniels]

"Stagger the games enough so that you will be comfortable playing as many as could get to 4 or 5 handed or less at once possibly"

Does this mean that it is preferable to play the latter stages of the SNG at the same time on all tables? Why?

[1C5]

It is for me as that way I am in the same stage so I won't be folding A8 on the bubble on one table and pushing with KT on another in level 2 by mistake.

[TheUsher]

System I use is 4 at a time and usually finish all 4 before starting up a new set. Only real exceptions are if I happen to go out early in 1 tournament at say L:1/2 and I might start up another one there to just keep 4 running.

If you do this though, make sure you can handle being on the bubble at 3 or even 4 at a time because it becomes very hectic trying to pay attention to the blinds to give you the knowledge you need to be able to or not able to steal.

Oh and always try and delay your actions a few seconds at each table even if you're concentrating on that table so it doesn't look weird the next time you're not paying attention and trying to win the other tourney(s). An added bonus of this is to try and thwart blind stealers if you habitually click fold instantaneously (or at least I'd hope so).

Remember: 1 ITM on 4 tables, even at 1st is only +.545 buyin whereas you should strive for at least 2 ITM's if possible.

[citanul]

For some people, yes, see the other person who already responded.

For many others, they like to pay less attention to the early stages, and more to the bubble/itm part of the game, since they have to play more of the hands, and they come faster. It's all about your personal comfort level at some point. Things that work for one person doesn't always work for another.

If you find that you lose track of things if you have too many shorthanded tables at once, play fewer tables that could possibly be shorthanded at once (stagger them). If you like having them all sh at the same time, don't stagger them.

citanul

[DrButch]

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If this is your strategy or process, you have too many tables open.

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I agree, and being comfortable at 2 tables that's where I'll stay for a while. However I find it amazing to think that this doesn't occur at 8+ tables (which is a common claim on these boards).

As for your comment on staggering the start times, I can see how it is a beginner's question, but on the other hand I assume that there are some interesting techniques that are not trivial. I stagger in a new table when the first is about level 4, but I assume that only works for 2 tables (rather similar to your suggestion). I guess I could be more specific in asking if there is a number at which a simple stagger doesn't work (just like moving from juggling 3 to juggling 4 balls), and what do you do?

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

[TheUsher]

[ QUOTE ]
"Stagger the games enough so that you will be comfortable playing as many as could get to 4 or 5 handed or less at once possibly"

Does this mean that it is preferable to play the latter stages of the SNG at the same time on all tables? Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Usually helps by not overplaying certain hands on other tables that aren't on the bubble and adjusting to the shorthanded situations that are coming up. At least for me it's annoying getting real aggressive with top pair shorthanded and playing the same hand at a full table right next to it. The thought processes on lots of situations just differ dramatically.

[Bigwig]

For number 1--beneath your desk.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005S6I3.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[Scuba Chuck]

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I guess I could be more specific in asking if there is a number at which a simple stagger doesn't work (just like moving from juggling 3 to juggling 4 balls), and what do you do?


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The correct general answer to this question is, whatever leads you to making mistakes is too many.

For me, I don't care much for being on Level 5 on one hand, and Level 1 on the next. That's why firing up all 4 at once is right for me right now. For others, when one drops out, they fire up a new one. But, anything that could lead you to make mistakes is wrong, IMHO. (For example, I called an allin with AQ once, and realized I was on level 2 - bleh. That's how I knew starting all four at once is correct for me.)

[johnnybeef]

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you should strive for at least 2 ITM's

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this can be -ev. i like to strive for one 1st out of 4 tbls. then the rest becomes pure profit. in regards to the op, i like to start all 4 at the same time. yes there are arguments that when you stagger you can concentrate more on "bubble tables", but i am more of a pressure cooker, and i find that when you are on the bubble with more than one table you have more of a sense of urgency. all in all when i am multitabling, there are certain tables that i put on a higher priority than others (i.e. middle stages when i am &lt;8 bb and a small stack.) the most important thing to remember is to remain calm and like scuba says give each decision the time it's owed. other players may bitch if you take a little bit longer, but who cares, they are alotted the same amount as you for all of their decisions. furthermore, after a few days, you will become comfortable with it and will rarely have to make more than one difficult decision at a time. the other thing about starting all 4 tables simultaneously is that you have natural breaks built in.

i think that sums it up,
johnny

[DrButch]

LOL. OK, I asked for that, and you delivered beautifully /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[TheUsher]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you should strive for at least 2 ITM's

[/ QUOTE ]

this can be -ev. i like to strive for one 1st out of 4 tbls. then the rest becomes pure profit. in regards to the op, i like to start all 4 at the same time. yes there are arguments that when you stagger you can concentrate more on "bubble tables", but i am more of a pressure cooker, and i find that when you are on the bubble with more than one table you have more of a sense of urgency. all in all when i am multitabling, there are certain tables that i put on a higher priority than others (i.e. middle stages when i am &lt;8 bb and a small stack.) the most important thing to remember is to remain calm and like scuba says give each decision the time it's owed. other players may bitch if you take a little bit longer, but who cares, they are alotted the same amount as you for all of their decisions. furthermore, after a few days, you will become comfortable with it and will rarely have to make more than one difficult decision at a time. the other thing about starting all 4 tables simultaneously is that you have natural breaks built in.

i think that sums it up,
johnny

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Let me re-phrase that.. I meant 2 or more ITM's in the set of 4 tables if possible meaning to try your best if you're on the bubble at all 4 at once by making clearer decisions and taking your time. I didn't mean surviving for 3rd instead of playing for 1st. If you've played with me at all you'd realize I go out my fair share of 4ths. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Since Poker Prophecy started on Jan 21 (so no one says BS), my placings have been: 1st:14.87% 2nd:12.30% 3rd:10.77% for 390 games but my ITM has dropped 1-2% lately from being too aggressive.

[Slim Pickens]

http://www.stadiumpal.com/stadiumpal.html

So many uses!

[citanul]

er, regarding your "my itm has dropped by x since i've been too aggressive" ...

are you making more money now, or before? ITM is only part of the story. If you're dropping 1-2% ITM, but your ROI has gone up 10%, you're clearly better off, no?

just be careful when you say "too" aggressive. you might be getting closer to playing very well, and you shouldn't run away from it just because some number that shows up on a site, or a spreadsheet, isn't what you think is "optimal."

citanul

edit: a note about goals in sngs. if your goal when you sit down to play a bunch of sngs is anything other than to attempt to play as best as you can, and via this process, win all of them, you are starting your sessions in a bad mindset.

[TheUsher]

[ QUOTE ]
er, regarding your "my itm has dropped by x since i've been too aggressive" ...

are you making more money now, or before? ITM is only part of the story. If you're dropping 1-2% ITM, but your ROI has gone up 10%, you're clearly better off, no?

just be careful when you say "too" aggressive. you might be getting closer to playing very well, and you shouldn't run away from it just because some number that shows up on a site, or a spreadsheet, isn't what you think is "optimal."

citanul

edit: a note about goals in sngs. if your goal when you sit down to play a bunch of sngs is anything other than to attempt to play as best as you can, and via this process, win all of them, you are starting your sessions in a bad mindset.

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I'm making way more now which has kept my play the same but my opinion of too aggressive is when sometimes I realize I have to change and switch gears to cool down when I'm the chip leader 4 or even 5 handed, stealing tons of blinds to get there, losing a key hand stealing which makes me a medium stack, (this is where I should switch), and then going out 4th shortly after.

[citanul]

This is fine. Changing gears mid tournament is one thing. But if you make more money over a block of say 500 tournaments having changed something about your game, than in the 500 block before making that change, it's very likely you are playing qualitatively better, even if your ITM slips.

So yes, be careful of your image, and the speed at which you are playing, on a hand for hand basis, but don't slow up just to slow up.

citanul

edit: i'm also hoping that your "and then going out in 4th" isn't a result of tiltomatic disorder. it sometimes is, but you should try to minimize that.

[TheUsher]

Not necessarily tilting or at least I'd hope not but continuing to play fast after not realizing my table image has been affected. That's the main reason why I think I should switch.

[raptor517]

for the record, so u can get an idea, i play 8 tables at the 55 and 109 level. may jump to 12, who knows. need another monitor tho..

ok, for staggering, i dont stagger. i start them as soon as i can get a seat. when i bust, i immediately start another table. no downtime. this accounts for the highest $/hr

going to the bathroom i try to fold all my hands and run. hopefully i only time out on a couple tables and dont fold aces. i am always drinking water, chocalte milk, or dp. good stuff. gotta pee a lot

sometimes i am in 3 heads up battles at the same time. i love it. i used to play 10-20 6max and would love playing people heads up, so i would be used to 3-4 heads up or short handed games going on. i dont really have a problem keeping up with everything. while 8 tabling i am usually posting on 2+2, downloading music, and making food anyway. /images/graemlins/wink.gif holla

[zaphod]

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000683034381/

[DonButtons]

I do 4 party 200s on my dell, 2 empire 200s on my lap top...ehh need a another screen fast

Im just starting up again, only played 2 days of 200s, already got in around 80 games, I can put in the hours in this game, only way to avoid me is by sitting in my seat...

[AA suited]

[ QUOTE ]
It is for me as that way I am in the same stage so I won't be folding A8 on the bubble on one table and pushing with KT on another in level 2 by mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

yup, same here. i fire up all 4 at one time to prevent accidents where i thought the blinds were higher than what they were and pushed because i thought i was shortstacked.

it only took 1 $30 accident to learn my lesson.

if i'm out early (lvl 1/lvl 2) in one of the games, i'll fire up another one. as soon as any of my games hit lvl3, i wait till all are over b4 i start my next set.

of course if u never get confused and can play mixed levels, then start a new SnG as soon as you get eliminated.

[DrButch]

OK, even with just 2 tables, I'm now convinced that starting them at the same time is simply easier:
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Since the games are at relatively the same level, its much easier to keep the importance of specific hands in perspective,
You don't have the issue of ramp up or slow down times
It creates discrete sessions so it's easy to schedule and avoid the wonderful urination devices thoughtfully shared by the 2+2 community :-)
[/list]
I was convinced that doing multiple end games were such a limiting factor that you couldn't start all of the games at the same time.

Thanks again.

[zipppy]

[ QUOTE ]
for the record, so u can get an idea, i play 8 tables at the 55 and 109 level. may jump to 12, who knows. need another monitor tho..


[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Raptor-
Is 12 tables possible? Party doesn't let me open more than 4 tables at once, so I assume people have to use Empire just to play 8 games. Am I missing something?

Thanks,
Zipppy

[AA suited]

well, having 6 tables all on the bubble is a b*tch. but that's rare for me. most of the time 1 table is faster than the rest, and 1 is slower. and/or i busted out early in a table or 3 /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[raptor517]

intertops and eurobet. there are a bunch of sites out there. u gotta use 3 to 12 table. i would have to get a new account and get a rakeback deal set up. but yea, its definitely possible. holla