Blocking Bets- post flop play [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

NegativeEV

03-08-2005, 02:56 PM

$33 SnG

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP1 (t655)
MP2 (t765)
MP3 (t1050)
CO (t1110)
Button (t800)
Hero (t1030)
BB (t755)
UTG (t695)
UTG+1 (t1140)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, MP1 calls t30, MP2 calls t30, MP3 calls t30, CO calls t30, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t180) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets t60, MP3 calls t60, CO folds, Hero calls t60, BB folds, MP1 folds.

Turn: (t360) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero bets t75, MP2 calls t75, MP3 folds.

River: (t510) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets t100, MP2 calls t100.

Final Pot: t710

 YUCK? Lemme know.

Results in white below: 
MP2 has Th Kc (one pair, kings).
Hero has Ks Jh (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins t710.

citanul

03-08-2005, 03:02 PM

Just curious, what was your plan if you were raised on the turn or river?

citanul

stupidsucker

03-08-2005, 03:06 PM

This is something I do often myself. If you check the turn, you are almost certain that the lead will bet again, and it will be a decent size bet you wont want to call...

BUT

If you bet small like that then you give your oppnent an opportunity to fold, and you disguise your hand a little. If he comes ovber the top then its time to get out, but a flat call and a safe river means another decent bet can be made.

Phil Van Sexton

03-08-2005, 03:08 PM

I'm not liking it. KJ is likely the best hand. If he had a better hand than KJ, he would raise you, so you aren't really blocking anything. With so many opponents and such a weak flop bet, I'd probably just call him down.

With a blocking bet, you want your opponent to just call even if he has a better hand. It might make more sense if you had QJ. In that case, he'd call you down with KT and you'd lose less. (I'm not recommending playing QJ like this.)

Scuba Chuck

03-08-2005, 03:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not liking it. KJ is likely the best hand. If he had a better hand than KJ, he would raise you, so you aren't really blocking anything. With so many opponents and such a weak flop bet, I'd probably just call him down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with your thought that KJ is probably the best hand, but I don't think calling him down, letting him get a chance to hit a second pair makes sense. I think betting the turn (as hero did), or check raising makes a little more sense. CR.ing probably will cost Hero the same, in terms of chips as calling down, but might win him the pot right there.

NegativeEV

03-08-2005, 03:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not liking it. KJ is likely the best hand. If he had a better hand than KJ, he would raise you, so you aren't really blocking anything. With so many opponents and such a weak flop bet, I'd probably just call him down.

With a blocking bet, you want your opponent to just call even if he has a better hand. It might make more sense if you had QJ. In that case, he'd call you down with KT and you'd lose less. (I'm not recommending playing QJ like this.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe my terminology is wrong. I'm looking for a cheap showdown here. On the turn I expect that if I check I will be facing a bet size that I can not call. I'm trying to "block" a meaningful bet from villian and control the pot on the turn and river.

I think I have the best hand, but I can't call a meaningful bet if I check. Do you expect villian's bets to be of a size you can call here? Maybe so, I'm interested in what you've seen.

NegativeEV

03-08-2005, 03:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Just curious, what was your plan if you were raised on the turn or river?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would fold to a meaningful raise.

Scuba Chuck

03-08-2005, 03:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Just curious, what was your plan if you were raised on the turn or river?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would fold to a meaningful raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why I think this is the best play. But I get your point, you're expecting a 2/3 pot sized raise or more by villain on the turn. You have TP2k (which is as good as TPTK in this scenario, IMO). Why is it that you would not play this hand as if you had TPTK on the turn?

NegativeEV

03-08-2005, 03:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You have TP2k (which is as good as TPTK in this scenario, IMO). Why is it that you would not play this hand as if you had TPTK on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

It I had TPTK and six people had seen the flop and three were still in at the turn with this board, I would see 2Pair as a strong possibility and I would play this hand the same way. I want to prevent a worse hand from moving me off this pot (blocking), but I want a better hand to identify itself so I can fold.

FWIW, If I had TPTK on this board there would not have been 6 people to the flop /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

nokona13

03-08-2005, 04:31 PM

I've been kinda tilty recently, so maybe I'm swinging back to weak-tight. But couldn't villain play 55 or KQ the same way on this board, but with a raise on the river? Are you willing to assume that villain would try to build a bigger pot with a raise on the turn? Or are you just willing to be beat by either of those two hands cause you beat anything else that could be played this way?

Travis

03-08-2005, 04:37 PM

I don't think this blocking bet works in the sense that it gets you a cheap show down against hands that beat you. I think a set or two pair would reraise you on either the turn or the river. I'd probably fold to a reraise absent a read on the guy. So that's a plus to the bet, it lets you get away from hands where you are behind but keeps you from getting into a situtation where the guy makes a bet so large with his weaker king or even a bluff where you feel uncomfortable calling.

The only better hand that I think this bet gets you a cheap showdown with is AK. If for somereason he limped with it, he might just call you down fearing you hit two pair with the 7 out of the SB. But I think most people bet more with AK on this flop.

Personally, if it wasn't for the second flop caller and I knew the guy was aggressive I might just let him keep betting at it. His bet size indicates weakness to me. I would suspect you to be ahead the majority of the time on this sort of flop and personally I think you'd win more when you are ahead be letting him continue to bet at it. As it happened he had KT and stayed with you but what if he'd had QJ or QT? I think you loose him there with your bet. Having said that, the presence of that second caller on the flop probably favors your line.

Not sure if this is helpful to you or not.

Scuba Chuck

03-08-2005, 04:55 PM

I would have made this mistake - not recognizing that you have TP2K (which is virtually TPTK in this scenario).

Knowing that going forward, I think the right line here is to open bet on the flop. 1/2 pot. Or, to check-raise on the flop. I don't want to see any more cards. I think a check-raise on the flop is your best line here.

The fact that you have thought through that you intend to call, and then advance a blocking bet on the turn, indicates that you're committed to putting more chips in the pot, I would do as much as possible early to find out more info.

But you're smarter than me, so what do I know.

NegativeEV

03-08-2005, 05:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think the right line here is to open bet on the flop. 1/2 pot. Or, to check-raise on the flop. I don't want to see any more cards. I think a check-raise on the flop is your best line here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have 4 left to act after me if I CR, and I have no information on the first two as they have not yet responded to the 60 chip flop bet. With this lack of informaiton I think CR into a field this big is a bit wreckless. The information gained by calling and watching the next two players fold was critical to the play on the turn.

If you CR, are you pushing here? What is your plan for the hand if you CR?

citanul

03-08-2005, 05:04 PM

I think that Scuba is more advocating betting out your quite strong hand, more than checkraising advocacy.

citanul

citanul

03-08-2005, 05:05 PM

While I don't necessarilly disagree with the fact that in this particular hand, you might not be able to call a meaningful bet on the turn if you check, or on the river if you check, this is a dangerous road to start to go down if you lose your way. Never lose sight of something, which I will attempt to summarize for you:

From many sources: Your opponents are for the most part donkeys. Thus, they will play horrible hands the same as you would expect them to play many good hands. Often your opponent's range of hands far exceeds the range of hands you originally might put him on. Due to this, many players miss value bets, or extra value in their value bets, from playing too timidly. Clearly, you have to pick and choose your opponents to go for large value bets with marginal-ish hands, but you should not miss out on too many of these, they are where your chips come from many times in post flop play.

There are many, many players that I would have a hard time laying down any top pair hand against, at any stage of the tournament.

Second point related, but not very closely, to this post:

In similar situations with similar goofy donkey aggressive opponents, you'll often find yourself heads up on the river with a truly marginal hand (often more marginal than top pair). Again, you suspect he might have you beat, but he will fold if he has garbage and you bet. It's often very correct to check and let him bet whatever it is he wants to bet, take a moment to evaluate his bet, and call often. Since he will bluff some of the time, but would have only called your bet if he honestly thought he had you beat, if you call the same sized bet as you would have thrown out every time, you profit. Also, sometimes they'll check the best hand behind!

Eh, this got a little silly and long, so long my internet connection had time to drop.

citanul

Phil Van Sexton

03-08-2005, 05:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe my terminology is wrong. I'm looking for a cheap showdown here. On the turn I expect that if I check I will be facing a bet size that I can not call. I'm trying to "block" a meaningful bet from villian and control the pot on the turn and river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your terminology is fine. The villian made a weak bet of 60 on the flop, so I doubt he's going go wild and bet 300 on the turn.

Therefore, I felt the blocking bet was unnecessary. I suspect that he is looking for cheap showdown too.

NegativeEV

03-08-2005, 05:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think that Scuba is more advocating betting out your quite strong hand, more than checkraising advocacy.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

I like betting out better than CR, but with the large field and early position, I'm hesitant to bet out. I like the information gained from checking and acting after betting. I can see the merits of betting out and gathering information/value in this manner though- what would your bet be on the flop and what is your line from there out? If the field was smaller, betting out is more attractive IMO.

NegativeEV

03-08-2005, 05:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think your terminology is fine. The villian made a weak bet of 60 on the flop, so I doubt he's going go wild and bet 300 on the turn.

Therefore, I felt the blocking bet was unnecessary. I suspect that he is looking for cheap showdown too.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why this hand is interesting IMO. When I played this hand I was contemplating one of two lines- either check/call/repeat or check/call/block/block. With either of these lines I would fold to a large bet or reraise. I'm not sure either is right or wrong. I like both of these lines better than betting out or CR on the flop, but I can see arguments for these as well.

stupidsucker

03-08-2005, 05:45 PM

There is no reason to cripple yourself or go out on this hand. That being said, I think anything works so long as you keep that in mind. betting out into that flop is a bad idea imo. Big field, a flush draw too.

I think Neg EV played it near perfect, but we can all argue it tooth and nail how we think it may have been better. IMO its really not even that important..

In a sng you want to accumulate chips, but survival is your friend. The hand was played just like that. There are other variations, but hey, does it really matter that much in this situation?

citanul

03-08-2005, 05:47 PM

I'd bet the flop, probably right around 100 chips. You'd likely only get the guy with KT calling it looks like, and I'd probably bet the turn, about 1/2 the pot again, maybe more. It's a bit opponent dependent. IE, how much of a donkey he is.

If I had decided to check, and then my opps had acted in the way yours did, I'd have checkraised. My checkraise amount would probably be something close to a call of the bet + 1/2 the pot post calling. Not sure, not looking at the original post right now at the stack sizes and pot size, but it's seeming about right.

citanul

Just wondering: what information did you think that you got by your flop action? At minimum, I'd have thought you got a strong impression you had the best hand. Thus, I'm confused about the rest of the hand as it played out. If you had raised the flop, you would have known almost instantly where you were at with mild certainty. Same story with betting out.

Phil Van Sexton

03-08-2005, 05:48 PM

The tricky part of this hand is that the villian is pretty shortstacked and he made a horses*** bet of 60 on the flop.

I never would've put him on a hand as good as KT with a lousy bet like that. I'd figure him for Qx, K2, or possibly slowplay. The other caller on the flop doesn't help either.

I'd normally checkraise such a weak bet, but he's so shortstacked that I might be pot committed if he pushes. Therefore, I'd likely check the turn, and then either value bet the river/blocking bet the river/check the river...depending on what happened on the turn.

Scuba Chuck

03-08-2005, 05:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think that Scuba is more advocating betting out your quite strong hand, more than checkraising advocacy.

citanul

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I like betting out better than CR, but with the large field and early position, I'm hesitant to bet out. I like the information gained from checking and acting after betting. I can see the merits of betting out and gathering information/value in this manner though- what would your bet be on the flop and what is your line from there out? If the field was smaller, betting out is more attractive IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

First, I want to admit that your thought process was far more thorough than mine on this hand.

The field: 6 hands still in. OK, you got me here, I see your concern.

This is an interesting hand.

OK, so you call on the flop. You'd like to see a cheap showdown, and leave unscathed if someone is slow playing a set. Considering the action, what hands do you put MP2 on? And then, what hands do you put MP3 on? The difficulty here is the range of hands for MP3, IMO. I think MP2 is pretty straight forward. I now see Van Sexton's point of view.

NegativeEV

03-08-2005, 05:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If I had decided to check, and then my opps had acted in the way yours did, I'd have checkraised. My checkraise amount would probably be something close to a call of the bet + 1/2 the pot post calling. Not sure, not looking at the original post right now at the stack sizes and pot size, but it's seeming about right.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this line is a fine alternative. I do think it makes the turn and river more difficult if you get a caller or two..... no?

[ QUOTE ]
Just wondering: what information did you think that you got by your flop action? At minimum, I'd have thought you got a strong impression you had the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I got the valuable information of seeing how the BB and MP1 reacted to the 60 chip bet. When they folded, you are right, I suspected that my hand was the best. I tested this theory and attempted to protect my decent hand from being pushed out of the pot with a turn and river bet.

NegativeEV

03-08-2005, 06:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Considering the action, what hands do you put MP2 on? And then, what hands do you put MP3 on? The difficulty here is the range of hands for MP3, IMO. I think MP2 is pretty straight forward. I now see Van Sexton's point of view.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, MP3 was concerning for me and I struggled with the range of hands they could have. I gave them credit for having two cards so I hoped that my turn bet would help clarify their hand as well as prevent a big bet from MP2. I think this hand is much easier to play if MP3 was not involved as you mention.

Elem100

03-08-2005, 06:16 PM

Great post

Irieguy

03-08-2005, 06:18 PM

I like your line here, but as others explained you are not really making a blocking bet, you are making a value bet.

A blocking bet is typically made when you have a hand with some improvement potential, so you are trying to slow down a late position value-bettor.

A value bet is a bet that rates to be +EV if called. You often have to fold if you make a value bet and get raised the right amount.

This is the type of hand that a lot of players get into trouble with, and some of the replies here advocate a line that can cost you a lot of chips when you get beat or outdrawn. You played the hand well.

I'm not wild about the river bet because you would likely have to fold to good-sized raise, and I wouldn't want to fold this hand with the way it played out. I would be more comfortable checking and calling for value. But I'm not sure your line isn't better.

Irieguy

Apathy

03-08-2005, 06:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I like your line here, but as others explained you are not really making a blocking bet, you are making a value bet.

A blocking bet is typically made when you have a hand with some improvement potential, so you are trying to slow down a late position value-bettor.

A value bet is a bet that rates to be +EV if called. You often have to fold if you make a value bet and get raised the right amount.

This is the type of hand that a lot of players get into trouble with, and some of the replies here advocate a line that can cost you a lot of chips when you get beat or outdrawn. You played the hand well.

I'm not wild about the river bet because you would likely have to fold to good-sized raise, and I wouldn't want to fold this hand with the way it played out. I would be more comfortable checking and calling for value. But I'm not sure your line isn't better.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly...

another time to use a river blocking bet, as opposed to a turn block (which I think is what Irie is talking about) Is when a draw gets there on the river and you cant tell whether you opponent was drawing, or calling with a hand he though was best already, but was not (ex...K10 here), you can bet about 1/4 pot, and you know your opponent will call or fold if the had the same hand, and only raise if they were infact on the draw.

Be careful about plays like these though. In my experience they should be reserved almost exclusivly for deep stack no limit, and only used against the right kind of opponents (it does not good to put a blocking bet in that a trick or experienced opponent will see through and raise anything).

In SNGs stacks are rarely deep enough for this type of bet, often you are better checking then making a read if you think you're opponent got there.

However, as was previously stated you played the hand fine, good read of a weak hand by opponent and good turn lead, when you aren't raised on the turn you make a good value bet on the river.

Irieguy

03-08-2005, 06:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I like betting out better than CR, but with the large field and early position, I'm hesitant to bet out. I like the information gained from checking and acting after betting. I can see the merits of betting out and gathering information/value in this manner though- what would your bet be on the flop and what is your line from there out? If the field was smaller, betting out is more attractive IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

You do not have to pay for information. Your opponents will give it to you for free. This concept of "betting to find out where you are" is fallacious and negative EV, negative EV. You already know this, apparently, since you played the hand well. But it sounds like you are searching for bad habits.

Most problems in life can be solved by throwing money at the problem. But being lost in a poker hand is an exception to that rule.

Irieguy

citanul

03-08-2005, 06:46 PM

Thanks /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I might post some hands or more thoughts on this subject sooner or later.

citanul

citanul

03-08-2005, 06:52 PM

I hope you don't misconstrue my and other posters' advice to be along the lines of "betting to gain information." It's much more "bet so when you are behind you get away cheaper than other lines, and when you are ahead, you win more than other routes."

i agree that there is a lot of fallacy in the traditional poker idea of "bet to gain information." However, in the op's hand, for instance, the way he played the hand he was given plenty of information, for free, probably about the same as he would have gained by other routes in this particular hand. He then proceeded not to act on it as well as he could hav, IMO.

While betting for information is sometimes misinterpretted, the more general rule of "if your'e going to call x chips, you probably are way better off for many reasons just betting x chips" is much less often misinterpretted. Especially in sngs, where fancier nl moves, like blocking bets, which usually only come into play when the stacks are deeper.

citanul

Irieguy

03-08-2005, 07:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]

While betting for information is sometimes misinterpretted, the more general rule of "if your'e going to call x chips, you probably are way better off for many reasons just betting x chips" is much less often misinterpretted.
citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, this is what I am talking about. The argument seems to make sense; "bet instead of call." But you have to remember the origin of that concept. It comes from The Theory of Poker and HPFAP, which are books about limit poker. In limit holdem, you pretty much should always bet if you are willing to call.

But No-limit holdem and particularly pot-limit holdem are much different games (I know you know this, I'm just trying to use coherent syntax). There are several reasons why you would be better off calling than betting.

First of all, it is usually easier to read somebody who is making an opening bet than it is to read somebody who is raising all-in. Monkeys love to shove. They shove when they are lost, when they have the nuts, when they are on a draw, and when they are bluffing. It is an especially enticing proposition when you sweaten the pot with an unenthusiastic wager. But when somebody is forced to open the action, their behavior is more transparent. The pot is smaller. They have to worry about losing you if they are strong. They have to worry about losing chips if you are walking a hand. They have to worry about how to play the next street if you call them (and this is the biggest worry of all). So check-calling for value is a critical skill in big-bet poker. In fact, when the stacks are deep, I believe it is the most important post-flop skill. So, this doesn't come up that much in PP SNGs.

My only point is that there are a lot of winning SNG players who haven't played a hand of meaningful no-limit ring game poker. So their post-flop skills are lacking, not because they aren't good poker players, just because they haven't battled under the circumstances necessary to acquire those skils. (I'm not talking about you, Citanul, I haven't looked closely enough at your post flop discussions to know one way or the other.) If you read Phil Van Sexton's posts, for example, it is very clear that the dude has played a ton of big-bet hands after the flop with chips on the rails. But there are more frequently suggestions for post flop play on this forum that are clearly coming from spontaneous bowel emissions.

The only thing I was trying to do is place some roadside barriers in front of the dead end passage towards which some of the replies were directing Negative EV.

You know what I'm saying?

Irieguy

Irieguy

03-08-2005, 07:31 PM

By the way, Citanul,

[ QUOTE ]
In similar situations with similar goofy donkey aggressive opponents, you'll often find yourself heads up on the river with a truly marginal hand (often more marginal than top pair). Again, you suspect he might have you beat, but he will fold if he has garbage and you bet. It's often very correct to check and let him bet whatever it is he wants to bet, take a moment to evaluate his bet, and call often. Since he will bluff some of the time, but would have only called your bet if he honestly thought he had you beat, if you call the same sized bet as you would have thrown out every time, you profit. Also, sometimes they'll check the best hand behind!

[/ QUOTE ]

... this is very good advice, and exactly the type of thing I am talking about. I want to make it clear that my response to your post was not a response to your suggestions for playing this hand.

Irieguy

citanul

03-08-2005, 07:34 PM

I get what you're saying, for sure.

editted to remove a bunch of non-sensical, silly stuff.

citanul

Shorty35

03-08-2005, 07:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Most problems in life can be solved by throwing money at the problem. But being lost in a poker hand is an exception to that rule.

[/ QUOTE ]

Irieguy - this is one of your greatest. When is the book coming out?

NegativeEV

03-08-2005, 07:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The only thing I was trying to do is place some roadside barriers in front of the dead end passage towards which some of the replies were directing Negative EV.

You know what I'm saying?

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

I appreciate both your an Citanul's thoughts on this hand. I posted this hand because it felt like one of the rare opportunities that surface in a $33 SnG to actually play poker. I play a good number of hours of SnG's but I play very few hours of real NL poker- this hand is moderately useful to SnG's, but thinking through this type of play is very beneficial as I attempt to develop poker skills. I can beat SnG's very consistently, I beat limit games when I play them, but I don't think I could beat a NL ring game, and these comments/thoughts, and this string in general are valuable for me.

Phil Van Sexton

03-08-2005, 09:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I could beat a NL ring game

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure you could. Your play here was surely good enough to beat the 25NL. Since you asked, you got some different opinions, but your play was not bad.

Keep in mind that all these answers are skewed by the fact that the villian was fairly short stacked, and you aren't really that deep either (compared to a side game).

AA suited

03-09-2005, 01:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
$33 SnG

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP1 (t655)
MP2 (t765)
MP3 (t1050)
CO (t1110)
Button (t800)
Hero (t1030)
BB (t755)
UTG (t695)
UTG+1 (t1140)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, MP1 calls t30, MP2 calls t30, MP3 calls t30, CO calls t30, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t180) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets t60, MP3 calls t60, CO folds, Hero calls t60, BB folds, MP1 folds.

Turn: (t360) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero bets t75, MP2 calls t75, MP3 folds.

River: (t510) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets t100, MP2 calls t100.

Final Pot: t710

 YUCK? Lemme know.

Results in white below: 
MP2 has Th Kc (one pair, kings).
Hero has Ks Jh (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins t710. 

[/ QUOTE ]

i would have played it differently. with noone raising preflop, i would think my tpgk is good.

with a straight draw possible, i would have bet 3/4 pot (~125 chips) on the flop. if called, i would have bet 1/2 pot on the turn. if called, i would have check/called a small bet on the river and folded to a large bet.

until their actions tell me that tpgk is no good (ie: at anytime that i'm raised, i would fold), i'm betting to protect my hand.

Is Negative EV's play better for early rounds?! it seems extemely weak with tpgk, and allows someone with straight draw, or mid/low pair to draw out on you for cheap. /images/graemlins/confused.gif