Short Stack Final Table Question

[HiatusOver]

5 People Left...Payout is 1. 12K 2. 8K 3. 6K 4. 4.5K 5. 3K

Stacks...UTG 65K, ME 26K, Button 38K, SB 270K, BB 75K...

BLINDS 3000-6000, 100 Ante

I am in the cut-off, UTG Folds. Out of these 3 hands...QJs, A4o, 22...which would u move in with in this spot, and in what order of preference?

Also WHY? If the stacks were changed a bit would it make a difference?
Cheers

[AtticusFinch]

[ QUOTE ]

I am in the cut-off, UTG Folds. Out of these 3 hands...QJs, A4o, 22...which would u move in with in this spot, and in what order of preference?

Also WHY? If the stacks were changed a bit would it make a difference?
Cheers

[/ QUOTE ]

All 3. Shifting the stacks around wouldn't change my mind so long as you remain a short stack. Order of preference: 22, QJs, A4o. A4o goes last because it runs the greatest risk of being dominated if you are called.

[schwza]

i'd push any of them. 22 is by far the best and i guess QJs is a little better than A4.

btw, i like these kinds of posts. if the BB had more (and were therefore more likely to call with KJ) i might move A4 ahead of QJs, but 22 is king.

[Luke]

I like these types of questions too.

When analyzing situations like this, given no player reads, what range of hands do put each stack on (roughly)?

Luke

[2005]

OK, I'm pushing all 3, same order, blah blah blah. What's with the miniature ante?

Gavin

[ThrillFactor]

[ QUOTE ]
I like these types of questions too.

When analyzing situations like this, given no player reads, what range of hands do put each stack on (roughly)?

Luke

[/ QUOTE ]


Uhh, AA - 32o?

How can you put anyone on a range of hands when there's been no action preflop?

Am I missing something here?

[HiatusOver]

Thanks for the response Gavin. By the way, this is Jesse I met you in the Bahammas and played in the worst 50-100 game ever with u, I was directly to your left. I was wearing a red hat I think, tall...kinda skinny, anyways thats me, we met. I have been doing well in these tourneys lately by the way and cashed in the San Diego 10K event so I am gonna be around these boards a lot more trying to keep improving...I've got the bug! Any response to my threads is always greatly appreciated.

[Luke]

How can you put anyone on a range of hands when there's been no action preflop?

Am I missing something here?

Sorry, I didn't write down my complete thought. I meant to say what range of hands do you expect them the players behind you to call or raise with in these spots.

Luke

[ThrillFactor]

This could be a fun exercise.

All thinking players have to know that your range is pretty broad here.

Button 38K:

Depends on whether he's trying to win or just move up the ladder. If he's trying to move up, he'll stay out of it with anything but AA or KK. If he's me, I come over the top with 88 on up and AK.

SB:

As big stack by far he should probably call with many hands unless he fears that BB will come over the top. I would reraise with 88-QQ to shut out BB, call with AA-KK to try and trap BB, call with 66-22 and drop out if BB pushes. Re-raise with AK and prob AQs. Call with AJ and maybe AT. Maybe call with KQs and QJs depending on what I though CO would push with. All this of course depends on Button dropping out. If he plays, then only QQ on up and AK, all of which I'm pushing.

BB 75K:

If anyone else plays, then he's only in with AA and KK, maybe AKs is he's particularly daring. If folded to him then I think he has to defend with 66 on up AK-AJ and KQs.

[SoBeDude]

I'm in with all 3.

-Scott

[HiatusOver]

Thanks for the breakdown Thrill Factor...The quasi-results of this was I was actually dealt A4o, pushed and was called by the SB with 55..so your breakdown was pretty accurate I guess.

We never got a consensus on the rank of hands, anyone pretty sure on the order?

[Roman]

I push all 3. Order: 22 QJs, A4o even though they are all very close to eachother.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
This could be a fun exercise.

All thinking players have to know that your range is pretty broad here.

Button 38K:

Depends on whether he's trying to win or just move up the ladder. If he's trying to move up, he'll stay out of it with anything but AA or KK. If he's me, I come over the top with 88 on up and AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

button would be horrible if he folded QQ here. i'll take 88+ AJ+

CO will be pushing any ace, so AJ is too good to fold. i'm tempted by AT but i think it's a fold.

[ QUOTE ]


SB:

As big stack by far he should probably call with many hands unless he fears that BB will come over the top. I would reraise with 88-QQ to shut out BB, call with AA-KK to try and trap BB, call with 66-22 and drop out if BB pushes. Re-raise with AK and prob AQs. Call with AJ and maybe AT. Maybe call with KQs and QJs depending on what I though CO would push with. All this of course depends on Button dropping out. If he plays, then only QQ on up and AK, all of which I'm pushing.


[/ QUOTE ]

i'd push everything i played here. putting in 28k and then folding for 47 more is pretty unappealing, and i'd like to force out a hand like AQ. if BB calls, it looks kinda ugly.

i'd muck small pairs, but play 66+ A8+ KJ+. i would not play QJs.

BB 75K:

If anyone else plays, then he's only in with AA and KK, maybe AKs is he's particularly daring. If folded to him then I think he has to defend with 66 on up AK-AJ and KQs.

[/ QUOTE ]

it would be a bad mistake on BB's part to fold AT here. he has to call 20k with 15k in dead money, so he only has to win about 36% to be break-even chip-wise.

since he has no fear of anyone coming over the top, my range is:

A6+ KT+ 22+

CO should be viewing this hand as probably his last chance to steal, so he will be pushing a lot of non-ace non-pair hands, which is why i'm calling a6.

[Luke]

That's what I was talking about. Thanks ThrillFactor.

I took the liberty of using your hand ranges as a guide and plugging some into PokerStove against our 3 potential hands so I could do a quick analysis.

Here are the results for those who are curious. FWIW, against all 3, QJs was best, followed by 22 and then by A4o:


Button { AA-TT, AKs, AKo }
QJs = 32%
22 = 30%
A4o = 27%

SB { AA-22, AKs-ATs, KQs, QJs, AKo-ATo }
QJs = 40%
22 = 35%
A4o = 32%

BB { AA-66, AKs-AJs, KQs, AKo-AJo }
QJs = 36%
22 = 34%
A4o = 29%


Luke

[Sal Allegra]

22 is definitely the best, but as far as QJ vs A2, I don't know, QJ is a better hand in general, but who cares is you're called heads up and A high is good., but A2 runs high risk of domination. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[ThrillFactor]

That's pretty damn interesting.

A4o doesn't surprise me. 22 coming in second across the board does.

If you have time, why don't you try plugging in the different pocket pairs until you reach the point where they out-do QJs across the spectrum. That would be handy to know.

What's a good guess? 55, 66 77?


Edit: While you're at it, maybe try plugging them in against schwza's ranges also.

[Luke]

I'm at work now but if I have time later, I'll take a look as I'm very interested also.