A micro BB discussion

[jaxUp]

Assuming typical Party .5/1 conditions:
3 limpers preflop, SB completes, you are in BB with Axs. At what value of x do you begin to raise? Please give some discussion of your answer.

[DavidC]

T

9 would probably be okay though.

Basically, my position sucks. You can't really checkraise to protect your hand, and you could be stuck betting the flop, it being raised on a semi-co-ordinated board, and then calling down to the river due to size of pot.

When you have a T, you can worry a little less about your kicker, both in its strength and the fact that it will be more likely to play.

10 also happens to be a power of 10, the number of fingers I have, and a number that I'm suspiciously fond of.

--Dave.

[Shillx]

Nine. No less for sure. Anyone who says ten is okay by me. Not raising ATs in this spot is a crime though.

I'm seldom right, but never in doubt. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Brad

[jaxUp]

[ QUOTE ]
10 also happens to be a power of 10, the number of fingers I have, and a number that I'm suspiciously fond of.

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmm...your logic seems sound.

[Poker_kensho]

In my experience at Party .5/1 limpers dont fold to 1 small bet so i raise with any ace suited here.

[Buckmulligan]

ATs seems like a very strong hand to me. Is it a correct statement to say that it is stronger than AT?

What if you are UTG+1 with ATs and UTG raised? Is this a reraise?

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
In my experience at Party .5/1 limpers dont fold to 1 small bet so i raise with any ace suited here.

[/ QUOTE ]

We know they won't fold so this is a raise for value. I don't think raising A2s here has value.

[toss]

A hands suited counterpart is always stronger than the nonsuited hand. Just because AT can make two flushes doesn't mean its stronger! Or does it?

[Entity]

With three limpers, A9s. I raise 100% of the time with ATs and less than that with A9s.

Rob

[btspider]

not raising ATs is the classic "bigger mistake than limping 72o UTG". your equity edge is pretty damn big.

A9s is a raise against a field.

A8s runs into AJ/AT/A9 hands often enough that you have lost your large edge (OOP).

[flopwell]

from BB, I don't raise this, as I consider it a limping multiway hand anyway. check and see what the flop brings.

edit. shoulda read the post more carefully. if x=10 or greater, I would raise

[flopwell]

being suited only adds (I believe) 2.3% (value) to your hand. It does add much more ev in multiway situations, though.

Is this reasoning anywhere near correct? shill or entity

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
ATs seems like a very strong hand to me. Is it a correct statement to say that it is stronger than AT?


[/ QUOTE ]

Big time.

Any additional chance your hand has to win (in this case a flush) adds value to it.

Numerically, I think somewhere that I read that being suited can change a 16% equity hand to a 20% equity: a huge increase (25%). Don't quote me. It's in small stakes somewhere.

[ QUOTE ]
What if you are UTG+1 with ATs and UTG raised? Is this a reraise?

[/ QUOTE ]

This question is a little bit too narrow, so I can only answer: "It depends."

Hope that helps (just kidding).

Basically, if it's really short handed, say 4-5 players, then yes.

If you're at a really weak game and the guy that raised is a lunatic, then also yes.

Generally, though, call, if you're at Party's .5/1 game.

If you're in a 3/6 game where it's a little tighter and tougher, you may consider folding.

--Dave.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
being suited only adds (I believe) 2.3% (value) to your hand. It does add much more ev in multiway situations, though.

Is this reasoning anywhere near correct? shill or entity

[/ QUOTE ]

Shill and Entity are on vacation (or rather, they're sleeping off a hangover), so I'll contribute my opinion.

In a heads-up game, a pair is strong enough to win. Flushes are nice, but they're a little bonus to your hand, rather than making it or breaking it.

Multiway, you're looking to make a very strong hand that can take down a huge pot vs many opponents. Flush possibility is HUGELY important.

Also, because you've got 7 cards in holdem, it's actually easier to make a flush than a straight. Weird, eh?

Anyways, in a multiway pot, your equity is much smaller, so the possibility of a flush, adding equity to your hand, becomes MUCH more important (2/10 is greater than 2/50).

Oddly enough, though, you're not too worried about having lower absolute equity in a multiway pot, because your proportional equity (i.e. your equity relative to the percentage of players that you represent) can be much higher.

--Dave.