KJo in level 1, 20+2

[wuwei]

My thought on the flop was that trying to push people off their hands here could be tough. I would need to raise substantially enough that the pot would be getting unwieldy by the turn. Decided I'd raise a turn blank.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP3 (t1935)
CO (t825)
Hero (t800)
SB (t820)
BB (t725)
UTG (t730)
UTG+1 (t635)
MP1 (t760)
MP2 (t770)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls t15, UTG+1 calls t15, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls t15, CO calls t15, Hero calls t15, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t102.50) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets t20</font>, MP3 calls t20, CO calls t20, Hero calls t20, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds.

Turn: (t182.50) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets t50</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t225</font>...

[1C5]

Fold preflop. Problem solved. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Allinlife]

if you want to play KJo for 15 on button, go ahead

but don't get involved w/o 2pair +

[Bigwig]

I don't dislike a turn raise, but you really don't need one quite that large. I think raising to 150 or 175 is fine.

But just calling and seeing the river is okay, too. I've got a feeling that you've got the best hand at this point.

[ilya]

I like your line.

FPF though.

[Scuba Chuck]

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Flop: (t102.50)

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How do you get 0.50 chip in this hand?

[spentrent]

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Flop: (t102.50)

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How do you get 0.50 chip in this hand?

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Converter seems to have a few known problems. I'm working on a new one for poos and hahas.

[ZBTHorton]

Fooooooooooolllllllldddddd pre flop

[swarm]

You don't want to play KJo even from the button on level 1. Many players, including me, will limp KQ (I occassionally play KQs from middle to late position, but top pair isn't all that sexy too me, i want two pair or better) some even limp AK (I don't but some do.) Plus many will limp pocket 4's or 2's.

You are unable to defend against straight or flush draws aggressively in fear of being out kicked. You don't know if someone is chasing a flush or calling you down with KQ or slow playing trips. You can also easily be bluffed off of best hand with KJ.

It's likely you have the best hand but I think you will find that more often you will lose chips with KJoff early than gain anything considerable.

I could see playing KJs cheaply and looking for 2 pair, trips, straight or flush. I would dump KJ off without hesitating.

[microbet]

I fold preflop, but call with KQ so I can't say it's too bad.

Doesn't anyone think he should raise the flop?

You don't want to give the diamond draw the chance to make a big raise on you?

Delaying your raise to make your hand look stronger?

You did give a cheap card for a lot of hands you could have beat and just increased how much you would lose to KQ.

[wuwei]

Regarding the preflop call. I mentioned once in another thread that I basically take 50 chips of my 800 starting stack to speculate with. This includes small pocket pairs for set value, suited connectors, or a hand like this. Here I have KJo - not a great hand, but it can make 2 pair or better. It can also make TPGK and I have position on the field to work with. If I flop top pair with a J, I'm probably not getting involved. Top pair with Js is too vulnerable a hand to play at this level with the 800 stack. But I do think I can work with it when a K flops.

[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't anyone think he should raise the flop?

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Raising the flop can be troublesome. A raise builds the pot to such a level that playing the turn becomes difficult. The pot 165 to me. A smallish raise will do nothing to protect my hand, but it will tie me to the pot along with anyone else who calls. In addition, while I like my hand it's very possible that someone is slowplaying a set, flopped two pair, or is sitting on a diamond draw. If I wait for a turn blank to raise, I'll have a great deal more information than I do now. I'll still be on the button after the turn, and I can now put pressure on diamond draws forcing them to call incorrectly if they want to see the river. I can also feel more confident that nobody is slowplaying a monster. Would they wait that long to bet their hand?


[ QUOTE ]
You don't want to give the diamond draw the chance to make a big raise on you?

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On the flop? Yah, that's part of it. I figure I have to fold to a substantial reraise, even though it could be a semibluff and I have the best hand.

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Delaying your raise to make your hand look stronger?

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That wasn't really my concern. It's more the dramatic increase in pot equity for my hand when a blank falls.

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You did give a cheap card for a lot of hands you could have beat and just increased how much you would lose to KQ.

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Correct on both counts. However, I think it's the best play. I'm prepared to release my hand if a diamond falls on the turn. I get away cheaply from what could have been an ugly hand. If that happens, so be it... And yes, with my turn raise I do increase the amount I would lose to KQ or better. But I feel like I have a lot of information at this point. I have now seen 4 of the 5 cards I will see on this board. Has anyone done anything to give me any indication they really like their hand? No. While it's possible that someone has KQ and is playing it very passively, I don't think it happens that often. I've seen what each of these players think of their hand on both the flop and the turn. If someone had a strong hand, they very likely would have bet it by now.

When UTG+1 checks the turn, I think it's pretty safe to put him on a diamond draw. When the CO bets, I think his most likely hand is a K. The odds are it's a weaker K than mine. His bet also puts me in a tougher position because I want to give UTG+1 terrible odds on his flush draw. That's why I raised as big as I did. I don't know if that was the best play... Raising to 150-175ish would still mean I'm making Sklansky bucks if someone calls on a flush draw, but it's not as tough of a choice. The other part of this bet was I planned on taking a free showdown pretty much regardless what card fell on the river.

I know these types of plays are not consistent with the base level strategy for low level sngs in this forum. However, I think some of you underestimate how nice it is to have the button on a hand like this. Any sort of scary action and I can fold my hand without a second thought on the flop. Same thing for the turn. I did everything I could here to protect myself from losing my stack on a relatively marginal hand, and yet tried to make the profits of playing when I do have the best hand worth going after.

There's a number of sngs where I play typical tight 2+2 style, go card dead, get to level 4ish, miss a blind steal, lose my first race, and it's over before I feel like I played any poker. I think it's worth trying to build a stack in the beginning on hands like this to give me something to work with later on - as long as I'm doing it with as much information as possible when I'm fairly confident I'm getting the best of it.

Just some food for thought... I'd love to hear more on this. You guys can call me fool if you want /images/graemlins/smile.gif