Should I have called one more?

[Vee Quiva]

2-4 Party Poker. No reads of any significance yet. I am in cut off 7 handed and dealt Ace /images/graemlins/diamond.gifKing /images/graemlins/club.gif. One call in front and I raise. Small blind reraises. Big Blind calls 2 cold and I call.
10.5 small bets in pot.

Flop is Queen /images/graemlins/club.gif3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif4 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Small blind bets, early player calls, and I call.

6 Big Bets in pot to the turn.

Turn is 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Small blind bets, early player calls, and I fold. Looking back, I don't know if that was a good idea. I had 4 fives, 3 aces, and 3 kings to draw to. That's 10 outs. Granted they are not all clean since there is a possibility for a higher straight with the 5 or someone else holding AA or KK with the preflop raises.

[Demana]

Cap it preflop.

I think I'd raise the flop too, but I over play this hand.

[sean c]

I would raise the flop hoping to get a free card on the turn. If its three bet and I don't improve on the turn I'm done with the hand. If my flop raise was called and he led the turn I would call one bet and fold the river unimproved.

[meep_42]

I cap in position with AKo here.
I'm raising a bet to me on the flop, betting if checked to.

As you played it, the turn fold was fine. I'm not willing to count any of your outs as full, since the 5 would put you on the ignorant end of a 4-straight. I'd count 1.5 outs each for overcards and 3 for the 5 (since the 5/images/graemlins/club.gif isn't clean either, 6 outs, 6:1 and unable to raise a river hit and I think I can find a fold here.

-d

[Vee Quiva]

Are you suggesting to raise the flop because you think you can get a free card on the turn? Or do you think most players with fold after that?

[Demana]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you suggesting to raise the flop because you think you can get a free card on the turn? Or do you think most players with fold after that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on the other players in the hand. Without any reads I'd follow Sean's line: Raise the flop to buy a free card on the turn and you may still have the best hand.

[Vee Quiva]

There has probably been some discussion on overplaying Ace King in these forums before. Here's my thinking....
In 2-4 "no foldem" Holdem you have to be prepared to go to the river with some kind of hand. Ace high will not win most showdowns at this level.

I can see the case for capping preflop in position. If I cap preflop, I do not see any reason to raise my opponents bet on the flop. I still only have Ace high. My opponent has shown strength twice by reraising preflop and betting into a raiser on the flop.

If the turn misses and my opponent bets into me again, I would definitely fold instead of call. A call seems like a wasted bet in my opinion. Even if you hit, you can't be too sure that your hand is going to hold up.

[chief444]

As you said you have somewhere between 3 outs (not including the /images/graemlins/club.gif) to a split and 10 outs on the turn and your closing the action. Also you may have the best hand. It's not likely but it is a consideration. Some players will bet their A-high into two opponents here, especially when you show weakness. I think I call. It's close though and I don't mind the fold.

[sean c]

I am not going to comment on capping pre flop but I will take a shot at your other two points. I am raising the flop bet for two reasons(against an unknown): 1. to get to the river as cheap as possible. 2. Gauge the strength of my opponent's hand. Like I said if he three bets the flop I'm pretty convinced I'm drawing slim and can fold the turn unimproved. Also what if you just call the flop and your opponent leads again on the turn you have no clue what he has he could be betting with pocket tens or a set of queens but since you have played the hand so passively its hard to know. Do you think an unknown would three bet the flop with pocket tens with an overcard on the board? Probably not and he will probably check the turn to you. After reading your reply to this post if thats your opinion you probably should have folded to the flop bet.

[PokerBob]

You are very likely drawing to chop. I have problem with this fold.