PP 10/20 AJs SB

[2planka]

Haven't received the hh yet. Apologies.

Reads: Button likes to steal. BB likes to defend.

Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif
7 Folds. Button Raises. Hero 3-bets. BB calls. Button calls.

Flop A/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif
Hero?

Edit: fixed title

[27offsooot]

Bets. Am i missing something here? HU i suppose check-calling the flop and turn and betting the river assuming u don't hit the flush would be fine, but i really think you want to trap the bb for bets if possible 3-way.

Edit - You're also expected to lead the flop after three betting PF, so do it.

[2planka]

I guess the question is whether to lead out or try for a c/r.

[27offsooot]

I don't like c/ring b/c 1. You'll likely knock bb off a hand that is drawing thin to dead and 2. a c/r would allow button to fold non-aces. 3. You can be betting here with a lot more hands than a pair of aces but i think a c/r tends to indicate greater strength unless you have a habitually c/ring the flop table image.

[jt1]

i think you're tempted to check raise the bb, right? It's unlikely that button will call that flop so go ahead and bet. Call down the bb if he raises and go for check raise on the turn against the button if he raises.

[2planka]

Thanks for the replies so far. The plot thickens:

Hero is SB with A /images/graemlins/heart.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif
7 Folds. Button Raises. Hero 3-bets. BB calls. Button calls.
(9 SB)

Flop A /images/graemlins/spade.gif 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif
Hero bets. BB calls. Button calls.
(12 SB)

Turn: 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Hero bets. BB raises. Button 3-bets. Hero?

(Edit: added pot stuff)

[27offsooot]

12:2 (i think), call for the flush draw and to see whether BB caps it. Fold the river UI.

[jt1]

The plot does thicken!

You're getting 3.25-1 to call down. I think your hand is good enough to call down, here.

[2planka]

Hero is SB with A /images/graemlins/heart.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif
7 Folds. Button Raises. Hero 3-bets. BB calls. Button calls.
(9 SB)

Flop A /images/graemlins/spade.gif 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif
Hero bets. BB calls. Button calls.
(12 SB)

Turn: 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Hero bets. BB raises. Button 3-bets. Hero calls. BB calls.
(15 BB)

River: J /images/graemlins/spade.gif
Now what?
Hero checks. BB bets. Button raises. Hero?

[jt1]

What crap!

I'd fold.

[2planka]

It's a big pot, we have top 2, and there's a busted draw on the board.... Hmmmm.

[jt1]

9-1 that you have the best hand. Maybe you have those odds. In real life, I'm looking for any reason to call, but I hope I wouldn't. In theory, I can't see a non-maniac raising here with less than a straight. Ps: I don't know what bb has. AT, KT with a heart or 2 hearts, A8 (thinking button will fear a straight). I'd say he's a LAG with AT or and button has TJ.

Are you up 10% of the time here? I doubt it.

[2planka]

I posted the hand because I thought it was interesting how my intended trap backfired and I trapped myself. That J was the worst card I could have hoped for. I thought I was good against the button better than 25% of the time. BB was the problem, but I developed blinders. I was focusing too much on the button. Heads up, this would have been much easier to play. In retrospect, perhaps a c/r on the flop is more of an option. Dunno. Needless to say the table was pretty good.

Results in white:

<font color="white"> BB three bets, button caps, Hero makes a stupid crying call, thinking only of the size of the pot and forgetting everything he ever learned about the game of poker. Button shows 87o for bottom 2. BB shows QTs for the straight (no hearts). Hero chats "wow nh" and gets back in the game. </font>

[jt1]

Clearly both players are maniacal. I'd have called down against them.

As for your thinking that a CR is best. No. BB had nothing but a runner runner when neither could be a heart. You want him to call even in this pot.

[2planka]

Yeah. I have two new buddies now /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[gman420]

I think this call is close. Assuming he BB doesn't reraise, you are paying 2 big bets to get into a pot that will have 13. Because you are 20% to win, your equity in a 13 bet pot is around 2.5, so this would be a good call. If the BB caps it, you will be paying 3 bets to get into a pot of 15. Here your equity is 3 bets, so the call is technically marginal, assuming your oppoents would fold if the flush card hits. You will probably even score an extra bet or two, which makes this call somewhat profitable. I'd call on the turn and fold the river if I miss.

[gman420]

This is why I hate internet poker. Not that I can prove anything, but I feel like this kind of stuff happens all the time, bad plays rewarded with lucky draws. The BB shouldn't have even been in the pot past the flop. It's questionable if he should have been there to see the flop. And his raise on the turn with only an open ended straight draw makes no sense (his equity of the 7 big bet pot is less than 1.5, but he decides to put in 2 bets.....), plus he's probably gonna be reraised. Sorry about the rant, but that has happened to me a lot. Anyway, I wouldn't feel bad about calling down to the end here. I would have guessed my opponent's most likely winning hand would be AT or JT, but even so he could easily show down AK or AQ, especially if his betting is as ridiculous as in this hand. It sucks, but I think you have to pay these guys off.

[masonx]

bet, If button was on a steal hes not going to bet into you after you three-betted most likely. I agree with what most of the people are saying so far.

[ErrantNight]

bets.

[ErrantNight]

caps.

[ErrantNight]

capped the turn so he leads and folds if it's 2 back to him.

[2planka]

Very good line. I like it.

[ErrantNight]

except this is a blinds/button battle. i'm inclined to cap and lead because i think there's a reasonable chance i'm still ahead, and i've got approximately a bajillion outs. maybe i'm being too laggy here, but top pair, good kicker, nut gutshot straight draw, nut flush draw, with another out i'll say for a J...

but i like the idea of calling to see if this gets capped, too.

[ErrantNight]

yeah, capped back to you that's the Easiest. Fold. Ever.

I still don't like a flop c/r at all. too likely on this draw heavy board that people will take a quick look-see at the turn for free, which would be disastrous, particularly since have the best draw out there.

i think the turn is the most difficult decision, because you're now likely behind, but you've got strong draws. since it's a blinds battle i'm inclined to cap as now there's a whole host of draws that people could be getting frisky with, you could STILL be ahead, and if you're not, you're improving a lot on the river.