Can I check raise this flop?

[thesharpie]

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: (5.40 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero folds...

I think I should've raised but I chickened out...

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
Can I check raise this flop?

[/ QUOTE ]
Semi-bluffs are very read dependant.

[Bjorn]

It depends a lot on your read of the button here. If you think he's the type that would bet with any pair or even A high in this spot you should probably raise. If he is likely to check many of the weaker hands I'd be inclined to fold.

It all depends on how good you think your overcard outs are. Anyway raising is definitly better than calling so if you don't fold you should raise to "buy" extra outs.

Personaly i would've come out betting on this flop but in some sense a CR might be better.

/Bjorn

[thesharpie]

I wasn't really intending to semi-bluff if I raised, my main reason for raising would be to knock everyone else out to buy my 2 overcard outs. I have about 7 outs and I was thinking I might get the right implied odds if I make my straight on the turn.

Thinking about it I might get slightly under the right implied odds for this move, plus I won't be able to call the turn unless he checks behind me, and it would suck to get 3 betted by the button, plus there still wouldn't be enough in the pot to draw again on the turn even if he 3 bet the flop.

I had no read on this guy so it's even less reason to try something risky like this.

I can't just call the flop, can I? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[pointcount]

[ QUOTE ]
Personaly i would've come out betting on this flop

[/ QUOTE ]
what would be your reasoning for betting the flop straight out?

[JKetzer]

I don't think you lose much at all when you fold here.

[ArturiusX]

Change that 7 to an 8, would you guys bet into this or check-raise?

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
Thinking about it I might get slightly under the right implied odds for this move, plus I won't be able to call the turn unless he checks behind me, and it would suck to get 3 betted by the button, plus there still wouldn't be enough in the pot to draw again on the turn even if he 3 bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
You shouldn't raise the flop if you're not intending to also bet the turn if he calls. And you should not bet if you don't think there's a chance of him folding.

[Buckmulligan]

Bad idea. A check raise here is a request to get heads up with the button. I think a fold is fine here but a call to see the turn is also ok.

[Buckmulligan]

[ QUOTE ]
I wasn't really intending to semi-bluff if I raised, my main reason for raising would be to knock everyone else out to buy my 2 overcard outs. I have about 7 outs and I was thinking I might get the right implied odds if I make my straight on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you make your straighto n the turn, why do you want to be heads up with the button? I don't like the raise because you have to act out of position on the turn. What do you do if a blank comes on the turn? You probably won't get a free card, and you are not getting any extra money in the pot from the MP players that you would have gotten otherwise.

[Buckmulligan]

Betting out on the flop isn't a bad idea. That would be a true semi bluff, given the fact that you have a chance of taking it down right there and if you don't you can improve on the turn. That would have cleaned up your overcard outs for cheaper than the checkraise.
I still don't understand why this situation is read dependent. If you are up against Q2 in the button, you are stilll probably 57%/43% against. In that case, you definately don't want to be putting money in heads up.

[wyoak]

i fold here. if the 7 was an 8, i'd checkraise and hope for a free river.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
I still don't understand why this situation is read dependent.

[/ QUOTE ]
You should only raise if you think your opponent might be bluffing.

[ QUOTE ]
If you are up against Q2 in the button, you are stilll probably 57%/43% against. In that case, you definately don't want to be putting money in heads up.

[/ QUOTE ]
If he holds Q2 he will fold to a turn bet. And the correct numbers would be 60/40. Favor of Q2.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
if the 7 was an 8, i'd checkraise and hope for a free river.

[/ QUOTE ]
Bad idea. Why face the whole field with 2 cold and try for a free card when out of position?

The only alternative to check7call would be to bet/call. I like to bet/call.

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
Change that 7 to an 8, would you guys bet into this or check-raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

uh don't checkraise when you don't know who will likely bet ... you would bet out the OESD

[ QUOTE ]
I still don't understand why this situation is read dependent. If you are up against Q2 in the button, you are stilll probably 57%/43% against. In that case, you definately don't want to be putting money in heads up.


[/ QUOTE ]

that would be the only situation to try this move, if the button is capable of betting total garbage, as the raise could take the whole pot down, if not a turn bet likely would

I still fold this here, since you have no reads to suggest that this is a situation to try this

[wyoak]

[ QUOTE ]
if the 7 was an 8, i'd checkraise and hope for a free river.

[/ QUOTE ]
my logic was flawed, ignore me.

[bozlax]

I'd say call. You're getting better than 6-1, on a gutshot, so you don't have the odd, but it's a gutshot to the nuts (that sounds bad, doesn't it?), so I'll usually play it for one SB. This is a personal leak, I know, but it's one I'm keeping as a pet while I get rid of all the others.

If somebody C/R's behind you, dump it. If you're UI on the turn, check/fold. If you make TP on the turn, I might bet/call, but probably not raise.

(Disclaimer: I don't know squadoosh, and I'm just trying to learn by saying stupid things and getting bitch-slapped by ShillX and Entity.)

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd say call. You're getting better than 6-1, on a gutshot, so you don't have the odd, but it's a gutshot to the nuts (that sounds bad, doesn't it?), so I'll usually play it for one SB. This is a personal leak, I know, but it's one I'm keeping as a pet while I get rid of all the others.

[/ QUOTE ]
This time the leak is your friend. You're getting 6.4:1 from the pot on a call with a gut-shot and 2 overs (~7 outs). Since 4 of these are to the nuts you're also recieving implied odds. You need 5.6:1 to make this call (not including the implied odds) so this call should be easy. With the lack off action I think your overs will be good a reasonable percentage of the time. Sure they set up straight possiblities but to account them for 3 outs would be resonable IMO. Plus you'll only rarely will get check/raised but often get additional callers behind making your odds better (thinking like this can be dangerous but since it almost got checked through I don't think it will get check/raised a lot.)

[ QUOTE ]
If somebody C/R's behind you, dump it. If you're UI on the turn, check/fold. If you make TP on the turn, I might bet/call, but probably not raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
Bad idea, you still have 4 outs for the nuts and are getting odds to draw to the gut-shot even if we discount ALL overcards outs (which we shouldn't).