Is there any way I can fold this hand?

[AtticusFinch]

30 players remain, top 10 are paid. I'm in 7th with 7k chips, blinds at 150. with KcKd UTG, I make it 500 to go. 2 callers, one is the chip leader to my right with 15k chips.

Flop is Qc4c2d. Chip leader pushes all in from the BB.

I just don't think I can fold here. Anyone disagree?

[Superfluous Man]

I think I mess myself with glee when I don't see an ace on the flop and the chip leader pushes. Then, before I manage to clean myself up, I hit the call button, all while grinning like an idiot and ignoring the stench.

..and then I mess myself again when the chip leader flips deuces or hits his flush or his 3rd queen. I'll steal a line from MLG and say "cards happen."

[willie]

i don't fold here.

[AtticusFinch]

The more interesting question is, how you you like the big stack's play here?

Calling the raise with a small pair is not too bad given the implied odds. And the push is an interesting move. Many folks will call with very marginal hands thinking this is a steal.

[AtticusFinch]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I mess myself with glee when I don't see an ace on the flop and the chip leader pushes. Then, before I manage to clean myself up, I hit the call button, all while grinning like an idiot and ignoring the stench.

..and then I mess myself again when the chip leader flips deuces or hits his flush or his 3rd queen. I'll steal a line from MLG and say "cards happen."

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, wow, that's exactly how I played it!

As it turned out, the other guy called as well, with AcTc, so not even my backdoor flush could save me.

[UOPokerPlayer]

Nope, looks like AQ or a club draw. AA is the only hand i could feasibly see for him to beat you. He did play it crap-tastically.

[willie]

i disagree, i think he played it very well

first off, if he puts you on a highcard steal then maybe he'll look at a flop.

second- there is a caller between you and him, raising his implied odds

third- he hits the set and open pushes, if you have AQ AA/kk you're calling here, so it hides the real strength of his hand

his call preflop is kind of marginal, but i REALLY like his flop open push.

[curtains]

Flop push is totally irrelevant if hero has AA-QQ, because all the money is going into the middle anyway. I hate pushing here, because you aren't going to get anything by players who would call smaller bets or make a large bluff if you check.

Hands in which someone has aa-qq are simply irrelevant here, and the fact that hero called means nothing.

[AtticusFinch]

[ QUOTE ]

Flop push is totally irrelevant if hero has AA-QQ, because all the money is going into the middle anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not necessarily. There is a two flush out there, so it's at least possible for hero to get away if a third flush card falls, and he doesn't happen to have a backdoor draw like I did. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Overall, though, you're right. Chances are pretty good all the money is going in. Still, there are many players who will call with AK, jj, TT, flush draw, etc. vs this push, figuring it for a steal, when they'd fold to a normal-sized bet. That's why this is an interesting move.

[Jman28]

[ QUOTE ]
I just don't think I can fold here. Anyone disagree?

[/ QUOTE ]

I, for one, do not disagree.

-Jman28

[willie]

[ QUOTE ]

Flop push is totally irrelevant if hero has AA-QQ, because all the money is going into the middle anyway. I hate pushing here, because you aren't going to get anything by players who would call smaller bets or make a large bluff if you check.

Hands in which someone has aa-qq are simply irrelevant here, and the fact that hero called means nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

once again have to disagree....

it's talked about in supersystem and the line i've taken from frequenting these forums is to bet out when you flop a big hand like this.

if someone has kk they are comin over the top of your perceived queen and you're going to stack them. However, if you checkraise them then POSSIBLY they can get away from it

it's kind of nitpicking but i tend to acquire more chips by betting out here.

[curtains]

Oh sorry...also you can bet small. I agree that checkraising is often a mistake if you think your opponent is capable of folding AA-QQ here. Most of the time there is simply no way they will fold, even to a checkraise, especially in this scenario.

[curtains]

I think in this scenario, given an online tournament, there is simply no chance that the hero is folding AA,KK or AQ to a checkraise. This isn't a cash game...there is no way you are passing up this spot.

Thus once you assume this, the best play is to check raise or to perhaps bet small to encourage a possible raise from hands like JJ and other mid pairs.

[curtains]

I don't believe there are that many players who will call with AK,JJ,TT here that will fold to normal sized bet. There are times when I like simply betting out huge with sets...but this just isn't one of them.