2-way non-nut hands

[pokahpro]

So if you have a small flush or non-nut straight along with 2nd or 3rd low do you check and call single bets? Fold to any agression? I assume the theory is any single bettor will only be good for half the pot at best. The chances of winning half the pot is good and once in a while we may scoop?

[Beavis68]

on the weak tables I play that is generally what I do.

[djr]

heads up that's cool to hang around. But if there are multiple people in the hand, have 2nd/3rd best in each direction will only cost you money in the long run. You might be able to take a turn card depending on your pot odds, but its safer to just walk away from the hand.

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the theory is any single bettor will only be good for half the pot at best

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True, but it's usually the high half. The low half is covered by someone limping to the river for fear of being quartered or counterfieted.

[Moneyline]

This is a pretty broad question, but IMO if you're going to play these hands (and there are many cases where I think you should) it is much better to raise than call if the pot is multiway. By raising you may be able to get slightly better hands to fold, fearing that you hold the nuts. An exception would be if you hold the 2nd nuts (like a king high flush) on the river, here I prefer calling because you won't be able to fold a better hand.

If you're heads up, these sorts of hands are often worth jamming with as you can be pretty sure you are ahead at least one way and you have scoop potential.

[Buzz]

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So if you have a small flush or non-nut straight along with 2nd or 3rd low do you check and call single bets?

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pokahpro - Generally no. You don't necessarily fold these hands, but if you play them, meekly check/calling is probably not the best way to do it. But the best course of action depends, I think, on the situation.

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Fold to any agression?

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I don't think all opponents should be treated the same. A raise by one opponent may not mean the same thing as a raise by another opponent. What to do depends on who is the aggressor and the specific situation.

I think it's generally harder to play when there is aggression, but it's often more profitable, depending on who the aggressor is.

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I assume the theory is any single bettor will only be good for half the pot at best.

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Not necessarily, but usually.

Assuming low is possible, I think this is very board dependent.
• Can the same two cards from someone's hand be used for both high and low? (as with a wheel).
• Can somone use three different cards from a hand? (as an ace plus one card for a flush and the same ace plus a possibly different card for a low)
• Are four different cards involved, two for high and a distincly different two cards for low? (as a pair of kings for high plus a deuce and a trey for low).

The more cards that are needed to win two ways, the less likely an opponent is to have them all.

Note that how often low becomes enabled (on the board) depends on the cards in your own hand, but on the average, no low is possible two boards out of every five.

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The chances of winning half the pot is good and once in a while we may scoop?

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Depends, but in a full game, generally no. I think that's probably the rationalization calling stations use for chasing with a non-nut high plus a non-nut low.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

[pokahpro]

Thanks Buzz!

I'm mostly playing micro limit, full tables. I'm not sure I can make much playing these unless there is alot of checking in early rounds. In tourneys on the other hand this may be a good bet. Especially about 2 hours in or when things get shorthanded. I noticed about 1/2 way through the 1-5 dollar MTT tourneys at Stars the players start playing "properly". Much easier to not get sucked out and often non-nut high or low is good.

As an aside is anyone playing the cheap O8 MTT touneys at paradise? How do they compare to the Stars tourneys?

[chaos]

It is very dependent on the situation. The number of opponents, who bet and called, your position and the board.

If you are heads up and the baord does not make an easy two way hand, you may be able to just check/call to the river. But if the board is something like 3 4 5, an opponent who is betting may have A2 for nut low and a straight.

If the pot has a large number of players and there is a bet with many callers it may be best to fold.

If there are multiple opponents and the bet comes from late position, you may improve your chances by raising. Say you have four opponents. The action on the flop goes check, check, check, bet and now it is your turn to act. If the board is not too scarey a raise might drive out most of those who checked. This may promote your third nut in one direction into a winner. You will not drive out anyone with the nuts with this play.