Near the money, 2 to 1 to go all-in with straight draw and overcards

[chopchoi]

NL MTT, 120 places pay, 205 players left. Avg. stack about 10k, blinds 600/1200, antes 150.

I have QJo in BB, and defend against a single raise from a big stack in mid/late position.

Flop is T, 9, rag, rainbow. I bet 1,200. He re-raises me all-in. There are about 18,000 in chips in the pot, and it will cost me about 8500 to call. I'm pretty sure that my overcards are no good, but there is a chance that he is playing top pair very aggressively, or that he has JJ and my outs to the Queen are good.

2 questions:

1) rate my play so far.
2) what do I do now?

[JaBlue]

1)you should have pushed the flop
2)call

PS you're not close to the money yet

[ThrillFactor]

[ QUOTE ]
1)you should have pushed the flop
2)call

PS you're not close to the money yet

[/ QUOTE ]


Ditto on all points.

[ZootMurph]

If there are 18k chips in the pot, then the preflop raise had to be about 6x the BB. 10 X 150 antes = 1500, plus 600 SB + 1200 BB + 1200 bet out on the flop + the preflop raise and call made the pot 18k. 18k - 4500 = 13500. Since you are guessing at the pot size, just a 5x raise would be 6k and you'd call 4800. Now, saying you have about 8500 left to call would mean you defended your blind with a third to a quarter of your stack, dependent, of course, on the actual numbers.

So, I would venture to say you should either have folded preflop or pushed. I personally would fold here without some type of read available.

Now, I can't see folding two overcards and an OESD at this point if you have to call with 2:1 pot odds. You must call in this situation.

[chopchoi]

[ QUOTE ]
If there are 18k chips in the pot, then the preflop raise had to be about 6x the BB. 10 X 150 antes = 1500, plus 600 SB + 1200 BB + 1200 bet out on the flop + the preflop raise and call made the pot 18k. 18k - 4500 = 13500. Since you are guessing at the pot size, just a 5x raise would be 6k and you'd call 4800. Now, saying you have about 8500 left to call would mean you defended your blind with a third to a quarter of your stack, dependent, of course, on the actual numbers.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, he only made a single raise preflop. 1,500 in antes, 600 small blind, 1,200 big blind, his 2,400 bet and my 1,200 call equal 6,900 chips in the pot pre-flop.

On the flop, I bet 1,200. He saw my 1,200, and raised me another 8,500, for a total of 17,800 chips in the pot.

[ThrillFactor]

The preflop call is automatic for me. You're getting 4.75 to 1 to flop a monster. You did (well, the flop wasn't QQJ, but it was still a great one for you).

Push the flop. If you lose, you lose. You're a very long way from the money and you need chips. You won't get another chance to triple- or quad-up before you're blinded out, that's almost assured.

[wegs the wegs]

This is an auto push on the flop. I'm guessing that this is an extremely low buy-in or a freeroll tournament, so losing won't mean too much. It is a coinflip if he has TPTK and not that bad if he has JJ or QQ. Your only difficult battle would be if he hit a set, but your odds are too good in any case to pass it up. Call... if you miss you lose $5.

[chopchoi]

[ QUOTE ]
This is an auto push on the flop. I'm guessing that this is an extremely low buy-in or a freeroll tournament, so losing won't mean too much. It is a coinflip if he has TPTK and not that bad if he has JJ or QQ. Your only difficult battle would be if he hit a set, but your odds are too good in any case to pass it up. Call... if you miss you lose $5.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, the buy in was $25 + $2.50, and there was money added as well. The money started at a little more than $90 for 120th place. I don't know if that makes a difference.

[ThrillFactor]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is an auto push on the flop. I'm guessing that this is an extremely low buy-in or a freeroll tournament, so losing won't mean too much. It is a coinflip if he has TPTK and not that bad if he has JJ or QQ. Your only difficult battle would be if he hit a set, but your odds are too good in any case to pass it up. Call... if you miss you lose $5.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, the buy in was $25 + $2.50, and there was money added as well. The money started at a little more than $90 for 120th place. I don't know if that makes a difference.

[/ QUOTE ]



I think wegs may have been a little presumptuous with his buy-in comment, but you are a "newbie" poster with a "newbie" type question so most of us here are going to assume relatively low buy-in. The truth is that on this hand it really doesn't matter is it's a $1 or $100 buy-in. It also doesn't matter what 120th place pays. You are way too far away to be thinking about the money. Again - you need chips and you need them now.

Betting the flop then folding would be horrible.

Betting the flop then calling his all-in gives you one way to win the pot - show down the best hand.

Pushing the flop gives you two ways to win. One of the most important concepts to learn if you're going to be successful in MTTs.

[chopchoi]

[ QUOTE ]
I think wegs may have been a little presumptuous with his buy-in comment, but you are a "newbie" poster with a "newbie" type question so most of us here are going to assume relatively low buy-in. The truth is that on this hand it really doesn't matter is it's a $1 or $100 buy-in. It also doesn't matter what 120th place pays. You are way too far away to be thinking about the money. Again - you need chips and you need them now.

Betting the flop then folding would be horrible.

Betting the flop then calling his all-in gives you one way to win the pot - show down the best hand.

Pushing the flop gives you two ways to win. One of the most important concepts to learn if you're going to be successful in MTTs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I called, he had aces, and I didn't hit my straight.

Everyone I have spoken to about this hand tells me I should have pushed. I didn't because I wanted to leave my options open. Two or three players were getting knocked out every hand. I figured that if I could survive my blind, and have one successful steal each of the next two rounds, I would make it to the money in the third round. So I wanted to save my chips to give myself a second chance in case this hand didn't work out.

The way I figured it was, if he had been stealing with something like Ace rag, he would fold to a single bet. With Ace 9 or King ten he might just call, but he might call an all-in with those hands as well, so better to bet weak. That way I can give up on the turn if I don't improve and he bets big, and I'd still have 8500 chips to make something happen with (avg. stack was about 10K). Or if he has a hand and plays back on the flop I still have outs.
I just felt that I would be better off giving myself some room to maneuver in case I missed the turn.

[juris]

Most, if not all, posters here aren't looking to just reach the money. They want a stack to advance deep into the money.

I'd call preflop every time. Based on the information provided, I'd push the flop SOME of the time, check and call others. The difference depends on what I think of my opponent and if I believe I can still get the pot later.

If he pushes on my check, I call. If he checks, I'll take the free card and make decisions from there. If he bets less than a push, again, I'm made a judgment based on what I know of the person but probably calling.