QTs -- a royal draw I pumped and a river decision when the flush hit [Archive]

View Full Version : QTs -- a royal draw I pumped and a river decision when the flush hit

Nick C

03-06-2005, 07:10 AM

I don't really think this hand is all that difficult or complicated, but I'm wondering about the river. Feel free to point out any mistakes I made before that, though.

Button is very loose, and that's mostly what I'd noticed about him. PT tells me he's 79/4/1.1 for 28 hands.

SB is a tight multi-tabler and is 14/7/0.8 over a larger number of hands.

Anyway, when I pump a draw on the flop and it hits on the river, sometimes I'm not sure what to do.

Context: I had whiffed on two river checkraises at a different table prior to this hand.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
3 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (7 SB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, SB calls, Hero calls.

River: (12.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB calls.

No royal for me, but I'm content with my nut flush. Should I check instead here, though, or is betting the way to go? I couldn't decide. I wasn't really sure what my play had represented so far, to my opponent on the Button.

(Plus, Button does have SB's cold-calls to worry about.)

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

Evan

03-06-2005, 07:16 AM

I would check raise the turn.

Nick C

03-06-2005, 07:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would check raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I wondered about the turn when I reviewed this hand after I posted it. But . . .

How many outs are you giving yourself after Button's flop cap?

Or do the reasons for a turn checkraise go beyond pot equity?

lmbree

03-06-2005, 10:47 AM

I would probably cr the turn and then lead when the flush card hits. A card like that is scary for everyone and my hope is the turn cr makes them think i don't have the flush and raise me. either way there is money put in the pot on the river. WIth the way you played it, the river cr is something i would try about 30% of the time. I just see flush river cards checked through alot.

Nick C

03-06-2005, 04:33 PM

I'll admit, I didn't even consider a turn checkraise during the hand. But now Evan and Imbree have both suggested it, and I'm interested in the rationale for it.

Potentially I have 17 outs, but I think those need to be discounted some, so I'm having a hard time seeing the turn checkraise as a value raise. I don't think there's much chance it'll win the pot for me immediately, either. And if by some chance Button 3-bets and BB folds, I'm not going to like that, although if the action were to get BB to fold, say, AQ, I could at least improve my outs situation a little. Still, that would be an expensive way to clean up gutshot outs. (If Button 3-bets, I don't think two pair would be worth much, if I caught a queen on the river.)

Also, checkraising the turn is not usually the way to increase the action you'll get on the river.

The more I think about it, the more I'm having trouble seeing why a turn checkraise would be a good play. So I'm hoping to hear further explanation of the case to be made for it.

sthief09

03-06-2005, 07:10 PM

I am a:

http://www.animalvetcenter.com/donkey.gif

sthief09

03-06-2005, 07:37 PM

ok I went on a rant about how stupid check raising is only to realize the button isn't the tight guy. that being said, I still don't like a check raise. I think you need significantly more than your true odds to make this move. sometimes the button 3-bets and squeezes out the SB which is terrible. I don't think it's worth the small amount you may gain by check raising with a lot of otus

Shillx

03-06-2005, 07:47 PM

You played it perfectly imo. Ni han.

Brad

Nate tha' Great

03-06-2005, 08:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
ok I went on a rant about how stupid check raising is only to realize the button isn't the tight guy. that being said, I still don't like a check raise. I think you need significantly more than your true odds to make this move. sometimes the button 3-bets and squeezes out the SB which is terrible. I don't think it's worth the small amount you may gain by check raising with a lot of otus

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah check-raising is dumb.