blackjack

What is the better count system for 6 decks? Hi-Lo or an unbalanced count.


Weigh in Poindexter.


Thanks. Dino.

If you already have a system memorized I would stick to it and incorporate side counts to increase your edge. If you are starting from scratch you should go with high-low. Both systems are easy to learn and similar in performance but high low edges out unbalanced slightly. Is 6 deck your only choice?

Good luck

Unbalanced is the way to go. Take a look at Arnold Snydor's " Blackbelt in Blackjack" and Don Schlesinger's, " Blackjack Attack".

One and 2 deck games are available but the heat on them is worse than playing 6 decks.


Dino.

Blackjack Attack does not illustrate any counting system. I have not read Snyder's book but have read Ventura and Fuchs's. I know statistically any pro balanced system beats unbalanced. If you are referring to ease of use that is a slightly different story. If he is serious about counting and can walk and chew gum at the same time then he should learn a balanced count system. It takes the same amount of memory the only difference is a true count conversion. If he sees the true count conversion being a prob then unbalanced is the way to go. After all, we are only talking about a very small percentage. No small rise in EV is going to make up for mistakes.

"I know statistically any pro balanced system beats unbalanced."


See Schlesinger's Score chapter 11 . UBZII is not only easier to employ, but has an higher ev than Hi-Lo.

"I know statistically any pro balanced system beats unbalanced."


That's simply not true. The UBZ11 that Brian pointed out is just one example of a very powerful unbalanced count system. Virtually any of Dr. Brett Harris' Brh systems outperform the hi/lo along with many other balanced count systems, including multi-level and multi-parameter systems. There is no reason a count system needs to be balanced.

UBZII is a level 2 system making it an unfair comparison. using this system is more difficult than any level 1`system unbalanced or not. L2 counting is much harder at +1+2-1-2 vs. L1 at +1-1. Also, L2 indecies are higher and harder to remember. I dont see any reason to learn this system. Anyone who has the talent to use an unbalanced L2 system effeciently will undoubtedly use a balanced L2 with ease. a better comparison would be UBZII vs. AOII in which AOII has a much higher ev.

AOII is a balanced count that requires an Ace side count. Poor comparison.

There is nothing harder than keeping side counts, which is required for AOII to outperform UBZII. No side count, UBZII wins.


Like side counts?


Then Dr. Harris' level 1 system (Brh-1), with side counts, outperforms hi/lo.


Like true count conversions?


Then Brh-1, an unbalanced level 1 system, using true count conversions outperforms hi/lo. (See bjmath.com for Dr. Harris' proof of unbalanced true count conversions)


You obviously know something about blackjack, I'd advise researching unbalanced counts a little more, you might be surprised at the ease and the power of the 'lesser' known unbalanced counts such as Dr. Harris'.

I was not saying AOII is the same in difficulty as UBZII, I just said it was a "better comparison" due to it being a level 2 count. You are right though it is hard, I was going to learn it myself but found myself playing too slow and making too many errors. Instead I decided to make my own system stronger by using side counts. My advice to Dino is to take your question to bj21.com and get an unbiased opinion. I just saw someone under a different handle posted your same question in the misc. section. As for Brian and observing good luck to you also I will be in vegas at the end of march if you want a peice of me I will meet you in an alley off of Fremont

...I tend to get angry when my ignorance about a subject is exposed for all the world to see?

I'm done being nice so heres the low down. Short and simple any moron can look in a book and compare unbal vs. bal stats. It takes a true moron to use an unbal level 2 count as his example to prove it has a higher ev then balanced level 1. Players who put their book down and actually play blackjack would have never compared the 2 systems. After this was illustrated I knew not to take you seriously. The only reason you can masquerade like a knowledgeable BJ player is because this is primarily a sports bet forum. Go fade away, read another book, and come back with a different handle like the rest of them. Until then you are not worthy of another final reply.

...just use the force?


You said: "I know statistically any pro balanced system beats unbalanced."


That ain't true, period.


You said: "UBZII is a level 2 system making it an unfair comparison."


Didn't you just say that "any pro balanced system beats unbalanced"?


You said: " using this system is more difficult than any level 1`system unbalanced or not."


I disagree. In terms of "ease of use" or "ease of learning" a level 2 unbalanced count compares quite comparably to a balanced level 1 system. Feel free to argue this one, it ain't a fact, it's just my opinion.


You said: "Anyone who has the talent to use an unbalanced L2 system effeciently will undoubtedly use a balanced L2 with ease."


So then, you're saying that unbalanced counts are just as difficult to learn as balanced ones? You stickin to that?


You said: "I was not saying AOII is the same in difficulty as UBZII"


I guess that means, no, you're not stickin to that? Make up your mind please.


You said: "Instead I decided to make my own system stronger by using side counts."


You saying that side counting is easier than learning a new, unbalanced system? Ya stickin to that one?


You said: " Short and simple any moron can look in a book and compare unbal vs. bal stats."


Really? What book includes comparison stats for any unbalanced counts other than UBZII and KO? (Want a hint? Brett wrote it.)


You said: "The only reason you can masquerade like a knowledgeable BJ player is because this is primarily a sports bet forum."


I never made any claims of being anything, but since I obviously know more about unbalanced counts than you do, what's that make you?


For the record, unbalanced counts are far superior to balanced counts if you're only interested in card counting. A balanced count can do nothing an unbalanced can't do, and unbalanced counts are easier, by far. The main drawback to unbalanced counts is that they don't make it easy to track shuffles, most any other argument against them is simply moronic, and most often made by someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.


You said: "I'm done being nice..."


Good, no one asked you to be nice, but how about you try being correct?