Story from my friends in Iraq

[wacki]

I have numerous friends and family in the military. The word I get from all of them is that the Iraqi civilians are sick of the foreign insurgents.

I've heard many stories about civilians bum-rushing foreign insurgents who were setting up I.E.D.'s (road bombs). One of the better stories involved unarmed Iraqi's tackling several armed insurgents. The civilians hog tied them and called the new Iraqi security force to pick them up. Apparently almost the whole town was gathered around the insurgents yelling at them and cheered when they got hauled away.

I don't know if any of this has been reported on the news, but I haven't really seen it. I've heard numerous stories like this from friends/family in the military so I thought I should share it with you.

[sirio11]

And how is that they get the word from the Iraqi people? A friendly chat at the local Bagdad Cafe?

[chabibi]

you dont think american soldiers interact with the local people?

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
And how is that they get the word from the Iraqi people? A friendly chat at the local Bagdad Cafe?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just use your brain and try to think about it. And no, my info isn't some coffee shop rumor.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
you dont think american soldiers interact with the local people?

[/ QUOTE ]

To be specific, the story I told I got from my brother who is an officer. He wasn't there, but his info is about as good as it gets without seeing it first hand.

[sirio11]

[ QUOTE ]
you dont think american soldiers interact with the local people?

[/ QUOTE ]


Well, to be honest, I'll be afraid to interact with people that shoot first and ask later every time they feel frightened. And even if I do interact; it's really hard to imagine myself saying to the brave American soldier with the big gun something like
"You know what my friend, the US ocupation sucks, why do you all get the f out of here".

[cardcounter0]

"The word I get from all of them is that the Iraqi civilians are sick of the foreign insurgents."

and American troops in Iraq would be ...
/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
"The word I get from all of them is that the Iraqi civilians are sick of the foreign insurgents."

and American troops in Iraq would be ...
/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

This is actually how I first interpreted it too, lol. I'm sure most Iraqis understand why we are there, but are just frustrated by the whole situation and the [censored] rolls fastest down the biggest hill.

[whiskeytown]

so let me get this straight....

some guy is telling me his brother heard a story about this happening but that guy didn't see it either and that justifies 1500 US dead in a phony war?

Thank god you don't have to prove it in a court of law. Hearsay thru two witnesses....whew.

Why is it if (or should I say when) I lie to congress, I can be charged with Treason, but when daddy's little cocaine snorter does it, he gets re-elected....<sigh>

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
so let me get this straight....

some guy is telling me his brother heard a story about this happening but that guy didn't see it either and that justifies 1500 US dead in a phony war?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, I thought it was a nice story. I have many marine friends and my own brother is an officer. I would think I have some credibility on this forum, I sure as hell know I trust my brother. So I thought I would share it with you. I wasn't using it to justify anything. If that makes me a tool, I guess that means I am a tool.

[ QUOTE ]
Why is it if (or should I say when) I lie to congress, I can be charged with Treason, but when daddy's little cocaine snorter does it, he gets re-elected....<sigh>

[/ QUOTE ]

Bush never lied about cocaine. He hasn't denied anything, not even heroine, lsd, crack, or snorting paint chips.

Edit: I just realized the style of my post does sound kind of gay, 1 more reason to stop drunk posting. But it is what my brother told me.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
This is actually how I first interpreted it too, lol. I'm sure most Iraqis understand why we are there, but are just frustrated by the whole situation and the [censored] rolls fastest down the biggest hill.

[/ QUOTE ]

The words from my brother were:

"they are sick of the bombs and carnage"

So I guess I will wait till I get to talk to him next time to see if that means they are sick of the US soldiers too. But he really did make it sound like they really want peace and freedom and were willing to fight for it. Having people who want to fight for it is the key factor I think.

[jaxmike]

thats a really ignorant post.

[Dead]

It's not ignorant.

Cardcounter is right.

You've undoubtedly heard this before, but how would you react if Iraq(assuming they had the capability) had decided to invade this country following the methods we have used in theirs. What if they decided to confiscate our arms and set up checkpoints? What if they killed 200,000 innocent American civilians? Would you love Iraq then?

I don't blame the troops for this. I blame the crimnals in charge. Most troops didn't know we'd be in Iraq when they signed up, and the ones who are joining now probably don't have any other opportunities. That's the only reason I can imagine that they're signing up now. It's certainly not to defend America from Iraq.

[jaxmike]

to call US troops foreign insurgents is ignorant, imo, thats all my post meant.

[Dead]

You're right that this is not the best choice of words.

The U.S. is a foreign occupier, rather.

They can't be considered insurgents, because they aren't rebelling against the Iraqis.

[Cyrus]

On another, 21-related website, a fellow posted something like this:

"In our first briefing by our commander in Iraq, he said to us in no uncertain terms to forget everything we heard and read about the war in the States. The enemy has the upper hand here, he said. Act accordingly."

[ToneLoc]

[ QUOTE ]
ush never lied about cocaine. He hasn't denied anything, not even heroine, lsd, crack, or snorting paint chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that's about the only thing he got str8.

[zaxx19]

DEAD thats 3 naked lies in less than 3 days....you are gonna fit right into the left wing looney bin on 2+2 .....

200k?? I read arabic media and even they dont assert such non sense.

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
Dead : "How would you react if Iraq had decided to invade this country following the methods we have used in theirs? What if they killed 200,000 innocent American civilians? Would you love Iraq then?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
zaxx19: "200,000?? I read arabic media and even they dont assert such nonsense."

[/ QUOTE ]

The figure of 200,000 is the conservatively estimated figure of American civilian casualties at the hands of foreign invaders, given the relative size of America and Iraq in populations.

And you are not reading "arabic" media even in your dreams. Here's what some Arab media has to day about Iraqi casualties in the recent war:

[ QUOTE ]
Al Jazeera (http://www.aljazeerah.info/Opinion%20editorials/2004%20opinions/Feb/21%20o/If%20the%20Iraq%20War%20Was%20Fought%20on%20False% 20Pretenses,%20What%20About%20the%20Casualties%20N aomi%20Klein.htm) : "In international law, countries that wage wars of aggression must pay reparations. Yet in Iraq, this logic has been turned on its head. Not only are there no penalties for an illegal war, there are prizes, with the US actively and openly rewarding itself with huge reconstruction contracts.
<font color="white"> , </font>
When the reconstruction spending has attracted controversy, it has not been over what is owed to Iraqis for their tremendous losses, but over what is owed to European corporations and to American taxpayers."

[/ QUOTE ]

IRAQBODYCOUNT.NET: Civilians reported killed by military intervention in Iraq: Between 16214 and 18491 (http://www.iraqbodycount.net/)

[Dead]

Dare I say.... pwned?

And yes, you're right about the 200k. I was estimating based on population sizes. In reality, if Iraq was as powerful as America it could be as high as one million.

And I don't lie, Zaxx. Show me one place where I lied. Opinions can't be lies. Only facts can. If I say that I think you're a douchebag, and you don't think that you are, then that doesn't make me a liar. It's my opinion.

[Gamblor]

And you are not reading "arabic" media even in your dreams. Here's what some Arab media has to day about Iraqi casualties in the recent war:

Oh, I get it. An article from the Guardian (posted, in English, on the al-Jazeera website) qualifies somehow as proof that zaxx doesn't read Arabic media? Care to post some real Arabic Media? (http://www.memri.org) (even if its only half the story)

Oh wait, I get it. You want us to believe that the original Arabic was translated by London-based Naomi Klein (Hebrew, I'd almost take your word for it /images/graemlins/cool.gif )?

The extent of your Arabic knowledge can't be much past "Inshalla, itzbah al-Yahud!". I can hear you chanting from here. (Walla)

[Gamblor]

"In our first briefing by our commander in Iraq, he said to us in no uncertain terms to forget everything we heard and read about the war in the States. The enemy has the upper hand here, he said. Act accordingly."

It is Standard Operating Procedure for an Officer to ensure his conscripts act in a careful, precise manner, especially when they are first deployed.

Having the upper hand doesn't necessarily mean they are winning, it likely means they have an advantage by knowing the area better.

This just sounds like an officer trying to remind his troops not to think they're dealing with crazed African tribesmen throwing spears.

[jaxmike]

[ QUOTE ]
(Walla)

[/ QUOTE ]\

Boy, does that bring back memories.

[jaxmike]

[ QUOTE ]

"In our first briefing by our commander in Iraq, he said to us in no uncertain terms to forget everything we heard and read about the war in the States. The enemy has the upper hand here, he said. Act accordingly."

[/ QUOTE ]

Read, they can blend in, we stand out. They can kill anyone they want, we have to show restraint. They don't have to play by any rules, we do. They don't have to answer to anyone, we do. They are native here, and know their way around, we don't. That's "the upper hand" I believe the CO was reffering to. "Act accordingly" makes me even more sure about that.

[Gamblor]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

"In our first briefing by our commander in Iraq, he said to us in no uncertain terms to forget everything we heard and read about the war in the States. The enemy has the upper hand here, he said. Act accordingly."

[/ QUOTE ]

Read, they can blend in, we stand out. They can kill anyone they want, we have to show restraint. They don't have to play by any rules, we do. They don't have to answer to anyone, we do. They are native here, and know their way around, we don't. That's "the upper hand" I believe the CO was reffering to. "Act accordingly" makes me even more sure about that.

[/ QUOTE ]

bingo

[Gamblor]

??

[jaxmike]

used to work with some people that some of the stuff you wrote reminded me of. really didnt have a point. sorry to confuse.

[lehighguy]

http://www.healingiraq.com/
I like his blog, but if you don't there are links to several dozen Iraq and Middle East blogs made by people who are actually there. They present a variety of opinions.

Also, some movies with raw footage of Iraq are comming out. I recentely saw Gunner Palace in NYC. It contains a rather poorly disguise leftist stance and editing, but since 90% of the content was raw footage of Iraq is was still valuable from an information standpoint. Still a find the blogs above much better for more in depth content and perspective.

[BCPVP]

Adding on to what Gamblor and Jaxmike said, the CO may have been trying to make sure his men weren't too confident that they'd take risks that they shouldn't. Possible?

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
The extent of your Arabic knowledge can't be much past "Inshalla, itzbah al-Yahud!". I can hear you chanting from here. (Walla)

[/ QUOTE ]

It is typical and routine for the fanatical Zionists, such as you, zaxx and the like, to resort to slurs and accusations of anti-semitism when confronted with criticism against Israel.

It is useful to remind ourselves of that shameless tactic, once in a while.

[Gamblor]

It is typical and routine for the fanatical Zionists, such as you, zaxx and the like, to resort to slurs and accusations of anti-semitism when confronted with criticism against Israel.

It is typical and routine of the left-wing to resort to name-calling and accusations of extremism/racism when confronted with a criticism against weak arguments.

[Cyrus]

You are on a losing streak, here, but if you want to break some record, I'm game.

[ QUOTE ]
It is typical and routine of the left-wing to resort to name-calling and accusations of extremism/racism when confronted with a criticism against weak arguments.

[/ QUOTE ]

What "name calling"? What "accusations of extremism"?

I called you what you have always called yourself : a Zionist. I will call you a fanatical Zionist, too, because of your refusal to entertain any notion related to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict that deviates from the Zionist credo.

Until you prove to me otherwise, the use of the term "fanatical Zionist" seems quite accurate.

And I cannot fail to notice that those "weak arguments" of mine (eg that it is morally bankrput for Israel to cosy up to neo-fascists) have not been addressed at all. I only saw ad hominem attacks.

[jaxmike]

[ QUOTE ]
It is typical and routine of the left-wing to resort to name-calling and accusations of extremism/racism when confronted with a criticism against weak arguments.

[/ QUOTE ]

not to get into the context of the argument, but i couldnt agree more with this statement.

[Gamblor]

You are on a losing streak, here, but if you want to break some record, I'm game.

Assumption of victory != victory. Is that all you're really after? winning?

What "name calling"? What "accusations of extremism"?

If there's anything more extreme than being a fanatic, I'd like to hear it. Thus, you calling me a fanatical Zionist = you accusing me of extremism.

I called you what you have always called yourself : a Zionist. I will call you a fanatical Zionist, too, because of your refusal to entertain any notion related to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict that deviates from the Zionist credo.

I am a Zionist; this is true. But there are so many ideas of what Zionism is (3 major versions, from day 1 until now) that the "Zionist credo", as you put it, doesn't really mean anything. Zionism ranges from a binational state with allowances for Jews and Muslims to those who oppose any idea of an organized state for Jews but still want Jews to return to Israel, to a Jewish-only state with all Arabs and non-Jews expelled.

so typical of you to oversimplify. It ain't all black and white, bud.

And I cannot fail to notice that those "weak arguments" of mine (eg that it is morally bankrput for Israel to cosy up to neo-fascists) have not been addressed at all. I only saw ad hominem attacks.

You clearly didn't read the original post, where I successfully countered your claim that zaxx could not have read any Arabic newspapers because a London-based article had been reprinted at the al-Jazeera website.

[ACPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
I would think I have some credibility on this forum

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1 more reason to stop drunk posting

[/ QUOTE ]

Both from the same post too!!!! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[wacki]

wacki = pwned. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Cyrus]

I have no idea why you wanna belabout the point of your ideology! It only makes your political leanings more prominent, something you carefully shy from, otherwise. Maybe it's that fascination with losing streaks.

[ QUOTE ]
I am a Zionist; this is true. But there are so many ideas of what Zionism is (3 major versions, from day 1 until now) that the "Zionist credo", as you put it, doesn't really mean anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are a card-carrying member of Betar who are the followers of Zabotinsky, the proponent of Reformed Zionism, the nationalist (http://www.betar.org.il/English/ideology/begin_land.htm)-socialist (http://www.betar.org.il/mems_e.htm) ideology of Jewish irredentism, supremacy and militarism. For all intents and purposes, this is synonymous to being a fanatical Zionist.

Link to Betar's homepage (http://www.betar.org/)

BTW, I noticed on Betar's homepage that a Ken Sachs will be speaking at some Betar rally and he is described as an American who "has served in the Israeli army". I feel like bringing up that darned subject of dual loyalty once more, what do you say?..

[Dead]

In fact, Trumpeldor coined the phrase, "Never mind, it is good to die for our country" as a member of Betar.