Lay down the flush?

[chief444]

Button is tight-aggressive multitabler.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Button caps</font>, Hero........???

Who's calling down and who's folding? Anyone just call the turn raise?

[gaming_mouse]

I don't think I can lay this down versus a TAG, but it sure looks like you are beat.

It would help to know what he thinks of you. Has he seen you pull any tricky bluffs lately? That would make the call down alot easier.

gm

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
It would help to know what he thinks of you. Has he seen you pull any tricky bluffs lately?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm can't really think of anything out of line previous on this table...but I was playing several tables at the time so I wouldn't remember.

As far as what he thinks of me...I'm assuming he has PT. I have a lot of hands on him (like 1k+) so I'm assuming he does on me as well. My VP$IP is 19%, pfr = 11.5, postflop aggression = 2.55.

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
My VP$IP is 19%, pfr = 11.5, postflop aggression = 2.55.

[/ QUOTE ]

In that case, I definitely don't think you can lay this down. That's one thing about TAGs, you have to pay them off sometimes. For example, a TAG might well cap here with the nut flush DRAW, planning to take a free showdown if he misses.
You are certainly an underdog at this point, IMO, but not so much of an underdog that you don't have the overlay to call down.

[tetonpete]

i call and hope for a blank...he might have a straight /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[The Dude]

I don't like the turn 3-bet. You've got a good chance of driving out the player in between, which you don't really want. Besides, your line up to this point is very obviously a flush, and Villain is telling you he doesn't care that you have it. Sure, against many opponents they'll just be reraising their 2-pair because they don't know any better, but I doubt that was the case here, otherwise you wouldn't be considering folding.

Since you 3-bet, it is probably prudent to fold the the cap, although I can't say for sure. i'd like to know a little more about Villain before making that decision. If this guy is capable of doing things like limping A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif or A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif preflop, then you should call down. But if you know this guy likes to raise preflop, then yeah, fold.

[chief444]

I agree on both points. I didn't like my turn 3-bet either which is why I asked.

I also thought I should have folded. At the time I was hoping to see, as gaming mouse was thinking, something with showdown value + the A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. But as you correctly point out there aren't really any hands in that category that aren't raised preflop. And no, I can't imagine this opponent not raising those hands. I realized this but of course after the hand and after calling down. And a set wouldn't cap, although it may raise.

All good points. Thanks Dude.

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]


All good points. Thanks Dude.

[/ QUOTE ]

Those are good points. I guess I really should be folding in places like this. It's just so hard.

[chief444]

You're working on it though right? /images/graemlins/cool.gif

I've been actually calling down a little more lately but this I think was clearly a time I should not have.

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
You're working on it though right? /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

And have plenty more work to do. It really is key. I'm convinced you cannot be a really good player without making correct folds in places like this.