How About A Poker Room That Requires Players To Watch Rules Video?

[grandgnu]

There are SO many uneducated players who just don't understand various rules (string bets, splashing the pot, board/table talk, player collusion, etc.)

Wouldn't it be great if there was a card room that required every player to have a card from the establishment that testified that the player at the table had been put through a short initiation/training session where they are shown how to play correctly so you avoid people flipping their cards over, acting out of turn, blabbing about what they folded in the middle of a hand, etc?

Perhaps this would be a big hassle for the casinos to setup, but I've seen a lot of bad plays (at Foxwoods in CT) that the dealers don't do much about because they want to get tips and don't want to tick anyone off.

[slavic]

I want nothing required at all. Any person who has the gumption to play is welcome to sit down. If you make it the least bit difficult then the players that you really want to play in your game won't bother.

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
I want nothing required at all. Any person who has the gumption to play is welcome to sit down. If you make it the least bit difficult then the players that you really want to play in your game won't bother.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it would be "difficult" on the players, per' se. It's actually doing them a favor, so they don't play like a jackass and risk being penalized.

I guess I can see what you mean, it could be a hassle for people, and I certainly wouldn't want to scare off any potential players. I guess in my neck of the woods, Foxwoods is just it, so I don't see how they'd scare potential card players off to another casino, they don't have the poker competition of the Vegas strip.

[Michael Davis]

I think it would be much better if veteran players stopped enforcing stupid crap like string bets and discussing hands while in play (except when it's grossly unfair) against novices.

Is this Gary?

-Michael

[cardcounter0]

I think if the floor and dealers are on their toes and know what they are doing, all the things you talk about would get straigtened out in an orbit or two.

And the player's that don't get it by playing a few hands and getting warned --- aren't going to get it by watching a video.

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it would be much better if veteran players stopped enforcing stupid crap like string bets and discussing hands while in play (except when it's grossly unfair) against novices.

Is this Gary?

-Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh.....the rules aren't "stupid crap", they're there for a reason. When you string bet, when you splash the pot, when you act out of turn, etc. all of these things can be used to give a player an unfair edge (i.e. to see an opponents reaction before you commit more chips to a pot, to raise out of turn to prevent a player from betting into you and then you just check, etc.)

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
When you string bet, when you splash the pot, when you act out of turn, etc. all of these things can be used to give a player an unfair edge

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is why the casino retains the right to apply the rules differently to different players. When it is clear someone wants to raise and a player calls a string raise (in rooms where the players ask for them to be called) they are shooting an angle; they have learned what this player wants to raise without having to pay the price of a raise.

[Dynasty]

That might be the ultimate nit idea.

[private joker]

No way. The players I make my money from at card rooms are tourists who come to have a good time, drink, and gamble away $100 or whatever before going home to their boring life and loveless marriage. Force them to watch a f[/i]ucking training video and they'll say "piss off" and just hit up a porn theater or peep show. Let the fish have fun, for Christ's sake. Consider the annoyances of their rule-breaking (as well as their dreadful suckouts) as "bills" you have to pay, or overhead in your business of winning poker.

[AKQJ10]

On one hand, the others are right: you don't want to have any qualifications to play in a game besides having the bankroll.

On the other hand, ignorance of the rules seems particularly bad at Foxwoods. I once had the pleasure of watching my table's drunk fish argue for several minutes that all queen-high flushes are equal (so his one diamond should split the pot with someone else's one diamond because the queen was on the board), summon the floor, and then storm out of the game. So yeah, a little background knowledge would be helpful, but in his state I'm not sure it would have helped.

I would think Foxwood dealers would pander less than other cardrooms', since they're sharing tokes with a million other people.

[BoxTree]

[ QUOTE ]
I want nothing required at all. Any person who has the gumption to play is welcome to sit down. If you make it the least bit difficult then the players that you really want to play in your game won't bother.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Peter]

What if casinos would just put a TV screen in a convenient place that shows the important rules over and over again. People can just take a minute to watch if they want to, and if they don't they don't watch it.

Peter

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
What if casinos would just put a TV screen in a convenient place that shows the important rules over and over again. People can just take a minute to watch if they want to, and if they don't they don't watch it.

Peter

[/ QUOTE ]

It'd be nice if the WPT or WSOP could run some "Don't Be A Dingus" advertisements on tv, and maybe promote a video clip that is available on their respective websites.

For those who are worried about losing the fish: Learning the proper etiquette for play, and the reasons why certain actions can be used unfairly would not provide an edge for the fish. It would just allow them to play in the proper manner. It wouldn't change them calling you with J/5 SOOTED after you pre-flop raise.

[The Goober]

So you're gonna tell a 70 yr old man who's been playing poker for 50 years that he has to sit and watch some dinky video about to how to handle himself at the table? I think most experienced players would find it insulting and choose another cardroom.

I like the idea of a continuously running video, if it was a big cardroom. Have it run without sound near where players get on the waitlist. Novices can watch it while standing around without feeling like they are being marked for slaughter. Hell, maybe just take the printed rules that every cardroom already has and make them easier to read from distance, with little diagrams like the emergency instruction cards they have on airplanes.

[tylerdurden]

[ QUOTE ]
For those who are worried about losing the fish: Learning the proper etiquette for play, and the reasons why certain actions can be used unfairly would not provide an edge for the fish. It would just allow them to play in the proper manner. It wouldn't change them calling you with J/5 SOOTED after you pre-flop raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nobody said it would give the fish an advantage... it will RUN THEM OFF.

Are you an authoritarian control freak?

[Slow Play Ray]

I gotta say man, this is a pretty horrible idea. /images/graemlins/grin.gif The only worthwhile way to learn how the rules is to make mistakes and get your hand slapped. Like the guy at my $1/$2 table yesterday who only turned up his 6 for trip 6s to win the pot. The dealer patiently waited for a while, then asked him if he was going to show his other card. He said no and she proceeded to push the pot to the other (losing) hand. It was f'n hilarious - he all but broke down in tears. He wound up showing the other card and she pushed him the pot, but that's certainly a lesson he will never forget.

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For those who are worried about losing the fish: Learning the proper etiquette for play, and the reasons why certain actions can be used unfairly would not provide an edge for the fish. It would just allow them to play in the proper manner. It wouldn't change them calling you with J/5 SOOTED after you pre-flop raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nobody said it would give the fish an advantage... it will RUN THEM OFF.

Are you an authoritarian control freak?

[/ QUOTE ]

It would be just like getting a wampum card at Foxwoods (so you can earn bonus points as you play). I run a home game, and yes, I can be quite the poker nazi, because a tight ship is necessary to ensure as fair a playing environment as possible.

Plus, watching Dennis Rodman, Chris Kattan, Colin Quinn, etc. splash around like befuddled idiots really gets on my nerves.

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
So you're gonna tell a 70 yr old man who's been playing poker for 50 years that he has to sit and watch some dinky video about to how to handle himself at the table? I think most experienced players would find it insulting and choose another cardroom.

I like the idea of a continuously running video, if it was a big cardroom. Have it run without sound near where players get on the waitlist. Novices can watch it while standing around without feeling like they are being marked for slaughter. Hell, maybe just take the printed rules that every cardroom already has and make them easier to read from distance, with little diagrams like the emergency instruction cards they have on airplanes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just saying it would be a one-time thing and then you'd get a card qualifying you, that's all.

A continuously running video might help or might not.

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
I gotta say man, this is a pretty horrible idea. /images/graemlins/grin.gif The only worthwhile way to learn how the rules is to make mistakes and get your hand slapped. Like the guy at my $1/$2 table yesterday who only turned up his 6 for trip 6s to win the pot. The dealer patiently waited for a while, then asked him if he was going to show his other card. He said no and she proceeded to push the pot to the other (losing) hand. It was f'n hilarious - he all but broke down in tears. He wound up showing the other card and she pushed him the pot, but that's certainly a lesson he will never forget.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess it depends on the dealers and floor persons then. Foxwoods doesn't really cater to poker players all that much, they'd rather we play slots. So their dealers and floor people aren't always as on-the-ball about handling errors as I'd like.

[jtr]

Gnu, I agree with you on a lot of the other things you've said on these forums, but I have to differ on this one.

Do you really think that the rules violations of novices are in any way -EV for you? I quite like the continuously running video idea, but anything stronger than that, like a short instructional course you have to sit through before you're even allowed to play, will surely chase off the best fish of all.

I've played at Foxwoods and I know the kind of rule-breaking you're talking about, but I think it's hugely +EV to let these people keep playing in a relaxed and sloppy manner. They're not string-raising to shoot an angle, they're string-raising because they're truly appalling players. Let them keep being so.

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
Gnu, I agree with you on a lot of the other things you've said on these forums, but I have to differ on this one.

Do you really think that the rules violations of novices are in any way -EV for you? I quite like the continuously running video idea, but anything stronger than that, like a short instructional course you have to sit through before you're even allowed to play, will surely chase off the best fish of all.

I've played at Foxwoods and I know the kind of rule-breaking you're talking about, but I think it's hugely +EV to let these people keep playing in a relaxed and sloppy manner. They're not string-raising to shoot an angle, they're string-raising because they're truly appalling players. Let them keep being so.

[/ QUOTE ]

Point taken. I guess I could concede to a running video. :P

[belloc]

I don't know if CA cardrooms used to do this, but the opening scene of "California Split (http://imdb.com/title/tt0071269/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxsbT01MDB8dHQ9b258ZmI9dXxwbj 0wfHE9Y2FsaWZvcm5pYSBzcGxpdHxodG1sPTF8bm09b24_;fc= 1;ft=21)" (Robert Altman gambling movie from the early 70s) shows something sort of like this. Elliott Gould's character is in a medium sized cardroom where they're playing (it looks like) mostly 5/10 and 10/20 draw lowball, and while he's waiting for his seat, he's watching a video on cardroom etiquette.

It looks not to be required for new players, but merely in the background, available to those who might want to learn. It seems to be just sort of playing in a loop on monitors in or near the waiting areas.

I don't know if this was something that cardrooms did back then, or whether Altman dreamed it up for the movie, as it serves nicely as a device to introduce the viewer to poker and cardrooms. Anybody old enough to remember whether this was standard in those days?

[masse75]

How about some of those "motivational" posters on the walls of the cardroom? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[mostsmooth]

your avatar rocks
your idea sucks
jmho /images/graemlins/cool.gif